Japan unveils new carrier-like warship, largest since WWII

[Greg]

And in other news on this topic, INDIA weighs in.

India's been a carrier operator for decades. Building their own is the only new wrinkle, and a ski-jump carrier is no great shakes when Spain and Italy have no problems building one. (No more used Light Fleet carriers left out there, so they had to build one.)

[MiddleAgedKen]

And in other news on this topic, INDIA weighs in.

If the Indian Navy doesn't go full Bollywood-on-the-flight-deck for their recruiting videos, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

[workinwifdakids]

Distance is an issue, but I like Bunker's Corrolary: "What's the CEP of a Ryder Truck?"

[Vonz90]

Argentina... airpower...

Start with understanding AEW and Japan's capability there.
ASW is a worthy subject. however if we're talking anything but attack subs it's nothing but unicorns farting rainbows. Airborne and Surface ASW died nearly 30 years ago as an effective ASW tool.

Beagle,

Talk to some sub guys, the thing that scares them is airborne ASW because there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The way to prosecute ASW is with all of the above because you put the sub in a position where it has to be perfect all the time. If there are tails out listening for him, helos and fixed wing following him, and subs looking for him, he wil not be able to take offensive action without exposing himself.

That and take out his bases, mine his approaches, etc.

If the sub knows where you will be and can sit and wait, they are very tough to impossible. If he has to come out and chase you around in blue water he is screwed in the long run. And that is why it is important to have carriers, because then he has to exactly that.

[blackeagle603]

I don't disagree with you on any of that Vonz. Except that what you describe is an Airborne ASW capability that (as far as i know) no longer exists except in history books. Even when it existed, well...

With airborne or surface threats we knew were in the game even if the Soviets flooded the threat sector with drones and decoys. With a sub threat, uhhhh... Let's just say our sub guys pretty much had their way with us in war games.

They might have got some birds flipped their way and foul language thrown back at them in a bar when they said "Hi skimmer, bye skimmer" or "There are subs and there are targets." However, no arguments. We'd all just pucker a bit, keep a brave face and


...and you

[Aesop]

Distance is an issue, but I like Bunker's Corrolary: "What's the CEP of a Ryder Truck?"

Or a Conex container.

[tcourtplayer]

BE, trying to determine the effectiveness of ASW assets when going against US subs is going to give you a very poor assessment of the sub threat. Don't get me wrong, it is a real problem but i don't think I can quite express just how much better our sub community is than everyone else in the world. They literately on their own level all by themselves...there is no one close to them. That being said, they are scared to death of multiple helo's with sonar domes. We can outrun them, out maneuver them and not lose them once we have them. I say this, because I am one of those helo pilots and it was my job to study this problem in depth. Don't forget, the way the US does coordinated ASW puts the US and a few allied countries on their own level in ASW as well. By the way, getting back to the OP, Japan is one of those allied countries that are good at ASW mainly because of who is around them.

Also, keep in mind the job of ASW is NOT to kill the sub. If you can do that, it is a hell of a bonus considering the complexity of the problem, even if you do everything right. The real job of ASW is to come home to a dry rack after your flight/watch. To that end, helos and fixed wing assets are invaluable in keeping subs outside of their effective attack zone of the high value target. You can do a lot to harass/complicate the subs attack solution without ever getting attack authorization yourself.

Finally, keep in mind a subs one and only protection is us not knowing were it is. Once the ASW assets have you (especially if you have helo's with a dipping sonar in the area) all the sub can do is tuck tail and run. Until they lose the ASW assets they risk too much by pressing the attack.

[Vonz90]

Beagle,

S3 is gone, but P3 and both ASW versions of the SH60 are still there.

We still have plenty of towed array platforms. So I am at a loss as to what specific ability you don't think we have any more. Se don't have as much of it, but that is true about everything.

One thing to say is the German air independent conventional boats are probably the quietest thing in the water. Their legs are a bit short, but they are very good at what they do.

[blackeagle603]

diesel boats scare the bejeebers out of me.

[Steamforger]

P-8's are making their way into the fleet as well. Saw one flying around yesterday.