And with that, thousands of new flame wars were launched

[Rod]

Gotcha. It looks like the bottom one would be easier with gloves than the top one. I confess, then, that I don't understand the problem they're trying to describe.

GOOD! Thought the technical details might be too hard to understand.

[randy]

Based on the problems listed in the article for the 1911, sounds like a hardware solution to a training issue.

That being said, I approve of allowing troops having some leeway in picking gear that they are comfortable with and have confidence in, particularly SOF troops. (within reasonable limits taking into account the increased logistics tail this brings)

[Erik]

Seems to me that with a tendency to grip too high, they're not getting enough leverage on the grip safety, so it doesn't disengage. While that could be a training problem, it might be a tricky one to fix, since a lot of pistol training emphasizes getting as high of a grip as possible.

Not really. I have a very high grip, and it's never been a problem for me. It's only a problem when it's combined with the loose grip (that also causes stovepipes). If you get a good grip, the grip will always press the grip safety, because you wont be able to grip around the beavertail no matter how high the grip is. The grip will automatically be around the grip safety.

I've seen shooters in competition pull the gun from the holster using only their fingers, and they dont get a proper grip until the first shot "sets" the gun in the hand. While this is arguably fast it might not press the grip safety enough to disengage it, and it also often causes them to miss the first shot due to the poor grip. Hence why some of them pin the grip safety, so the gun will fire regardless of the grip. Personally I think it's a poor solution, if you dont have a proper grip you wont be able to shoot with any accuracy anyway, but that's the thinking.
Another problem I've seen caused by poor grip is shooters that engage the thumb safety or even press the magazine release when the gun recoils.

I imagine that if the soldiers use gloves it could make this problem worse since they would have less of a feel, which might cause them to not grip the gun hard enough. But I still think it's a training issue and not a gun design issue. You wont be able to shoot any gun very well with a poor grip. For instance if you grab a Glock with a too high and loose grip the slide could hit your hand or the accuracy would be awful.

[mekender]

To be honest, if I were going into a combat situation where I would likely need my sidearm, the durability and magazine capacity of the Glock would win hands down.

IMO the real down side to the switch to a 9mm is that the rounds are likely to over-penetrate more than a .45 since they have to use ball ammo...

[Jericho941]

Seems to me that with a tendency to grip too high, they're not getting enough leverage on the grip safety, so it doesn't disengage. While that could be a training problem, it might be a tricky one to fix, since a lot of pistol training emphasizes getting as high of a grip as possible.

Not really. I have a very high grip, and it's never been a problem for me. It's only a problem when it's combined with the loose grip (that also causes stovepipes). If you get a good grip, the grip will always press the grip safety, because you wont be able to grip around the beavertail no matter how high the grip is. The grip will automatically be around the grip safety.

I've seen shooters in competition pull the gun from the holster using only their fingers, and they dont get a proper grip until the first shot "sets" the gun in the hand. While this is arguably fast it might not press the grip safety enough to disengage it, and it also often causes them to miss the first shot due to the poor grip. Hence why some of them pin the grip safety, so the gun will fire regardless of the grip. Personally I think it's a poor solution, if you dont have a proper grip you wont be able to shoot with any accuracy anyway, but that's the thinking.
Another problem I've seen caused by poor grip is shooters that engage the thumb safety or even press the magazine release when the gun recoils.

I imagine that if the soldiers use gloves it could make this problem worse since they would have less of a feel, which might cause them to not grip the gun hard enough. But I still think it's a training issue and not a gun design issue. You wont be able to shoot any gun very well with a poor grip. For instance if you grab a Glock with a too high and loose grip the slide could hit your hand or the accuracy would be awful.

Huh, interesting.

IMO the real down side to the switch to a 9mm is that the rounds are likely to over-penetrate more than a .45 since they have to use ball ammo...

Special "operator" types generally aren't held back by this the way everyone else usually is.

[TheArmsman]

Read the report, and says they are going to use the Glock 19. That is the midsize one, rather than the 17, the fullsize version. What is up with that?

Have been shooting the 1911 since the early 80's, with and without gloves, and never once had a failure to fire due to the grip safety not being engaged. Sounds like a training problem.

Would still rather use a G17.

[Aesop]

Whatever.

If they're down to their jeezly sidearms, things have already gone pretty pear-shaped anyways.

For all the difference it'd make, they could probably issue Colt SAAs and Ruger Vaqueros, and let them carry in anydamncaliber they could find.
There would be 0.002 anecdotal stories per decade about anyone notable who gave a crap, or any noticeable change in outcomes IRL.

The only real news in the piece is that, contrary to 240 years of official MarCorps policy, they're actually giving individual Marines a choice.
Somewhere, someone's 0-6 head will roll for that fuck-up.

Oh, and total number of women who have qualified for MARSOC: still zero.

So the companion story should soon announce that the Rangers will now be allowing pink Lady Smiths for optional carry. In their tactical purses.


But if somebody doesn't stick a knife in the F-35 Thunderjug before it eats the entire USMC budget for the next two decades, MARSOC will be selling cookies outside supermarkets to have enough money to train.

[mekender]

MARSOC will be selling cookies outside supermarkets to have enough money to train.

I can see it now... "I'll have a box of Gunny's Skull Fuck Mints and a box of PFC Numbnuts Last Batch"

[PawPaw]

If the grip safety bothers you, there's always the option oftying it down like Texas Ranger Charlie Miller did.

That sort of negates the whole problem, but might cause other problems.

[Langenator]

Read the report, and says they are going to use the Glock 19. That is the midsize one, rather than the 17, the fullsize version. What is up with that?

Well, IIRC, the SEALs use the SiG P226 or P229 (the M11, whichever that was), which I believe is comparable to the G19. The ones I saw in the 'Stan carried them on the chest of their body armor, above the rifle mags. May explain why they want something a bit smaller, if MARSOC guys tend to carry theirs in a similar manner.