America's Military: A force adrift

[skb12172]

Watch what happens to combat generals. They are burned at the stake.

War horses have no business in front of a plow.

Catchy quote, but too vague for us Civis. Please elaborate.

[Yogimus]

Can't begin to define what I mean. too drunk.


Yet I was compelled to respond.

[Yogimus]

When the war is over, the horses are killed off. No longer useful.

[PawPaw]

Watch what happens to combat generals. They are burned at the stake.

War horses have no business in front of a plow.

Are there any more combat generals? Guys who wear stars and actually lead divisions in combat? I admit that I've been out of the game since '99, but it doesn't seem to me that generals actively enter the battlefield, and that might be the nature of warfare these days.

Petreus was a scholar, a soldier, and had bona-fides as the architect of the surge, but did he actually lead troops into combat? I know Schwartskopf did during Desert Storm, and he might be the last example of a combat general. Again, I haven't studied the leadership in the last 15 years, but no names jump out as "combat generals".

[Aesop]

A notable pointer is that we've certainly had more guys sacked for stupidity than we've ever lost in combat, without adding Confederate generals during the Civil War to the pot.
The number of generals or admirals who, as such, have actually been close enough to hear shots fired in anger (while not esconced in a Fobbit hole) would probably almost make enough guys for a good game of poker. And five years from now will be even worse.

GIGO

[Yogimus]

Folks who led men at the unit level rarely make it to a start. Generally it is managers and logistics guys that get promoted.

[PawPaw]

Folks who led men at the unit level rarely make it to a start. Generally it is managers and logistics guys that get promoted.

I don't know how it works with the blue-suiters, but when I was wearing green, it was an article of faith that if you wanted stars, you had to first command a brigade, and because there are only a limited number of brigades, and a more limited number of one-star slots, even commanding a brigade wasn't a shoe-in.

The Army used to have something called a Mandatory Removal Date (MRD) that changed depending on your grade and commissioned time. For a Major, the MRD fell just about the time you got your 20. For a light colonel, it fell four years later. For a full-bull, it fell three or four years after that. Then, one day the Army came to you and said "It's been fun, but we don't need you anymore."

Of course, then there were RIFs that came when the Army was reducing personnel. I lived through two of those, and it wasn't fun. If you got a year-group that was heavy, and the Army didn't need that many Captains, you got the boot. That's what's happening now, with a big RIF of Captains and Majors. Too bad, so sad, you're excess. That affects morale like nothing I've ever seen.

One buddy of mine got RIF'd because he was a helicopter pilot and the Army decided they didn't need that many helicopter pilots, so he got the two=week notice. Luckily, he went down to the Coast Guard, and they needed pilots for exactly the model he was current in. He got out of the Army on Friday and went to work for the Coasties on Monday.

[Yogimus]

Force Shaping is what we are calling it. same result.

[Jericho941]

Force Shaping is what we are calling it. same result.

Yup.

[Vonz90]

A notable pointer is that we've certainly had more guys sacked for stupidity than we've ever lost in combat, without adding Confederate generals during the Civil War to the pot.
The number of generals or admirals who, as such, have actually been close enough to hear shots fired in anger (while not esconced in a Fobbit hole) would probably almost make enough guys for a good game of poker. And five years from now will be even worse.

GIGO

39 US flag officers killed in combat from the start of WW2 until now. 40 if you count the one killed in the Pentagon on 9/11. 13 of them in Vietnam. Only 2 in Korea. One in Afghanistan. The rest in WW2.

Any COIN OP heavy war is going to mostly be maneuver units in the battalion size and lower, so there really isn't that much opportunity for flag officers to lead in battle. They are setting policy and giving overall direction and letting the lower commanders command. That is how it should be.