Shia LeBouf epically trolled

[slowpoke]

A MAGA cap may not have been a fair trade. Maybe a "He did not divide us flag." with a reference to The Donald's illustrious predecessor.

those of us on the alt - right .

Who among us is alt-right? The alt-rights are philosophically leftists of the highest caliber and truth be known, probably vote with them, too.

The alt right is no such thing. Stop spreading slander. Here is what the alt right is.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what ... ht-is.html

[blackeagle603]

re: this back and forth

Who among us is alt-right? The alt-rights are philosophically leftists of the highest caliber and truth be known, probably vote with them, too.

The alt right is no such thing. Stop spreading slander. Here is what the alt right is.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what ... ht-is.html

Following that link to VoxDay there's this claim (admission?) there's this.

The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA that is nominally encapsulated by Russel Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles, but in reality has devolved towards progressivism.

To the extent the AltRight is progressive does that make it reasonable to argue it is "philosophically leftist?"

[Vonz90]

re: this back and forth

Who among us is alt-right? The alt-rights are philosophically leftists of the highest caliber and truth be known, probably vote with them, too.

The alt right is no such thing. Stop spreading slander. Here is what the alt right is.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what ... ht-is.html

Following that link to VoxDay there's this claim (admission?) there's this.

The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA that is nominally encapsulated by Russel Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles, but in reality has devolved towards progressivism.

To the extent the AltRight is progressive does that make it reasonable to argue it is "philosophically leftist?"

It is because they are. (at least to a large degree, obviously they are not uniform - but one can look at the trends and averages)

[blackeagle603]

It is because they are. (at least to a large degree, obviously they are not uniform - but one can look at the trends and averages)

Ok, says you. Slowpoke differs and supports with that manifesto on VoxDay.

Have you got links or references to argue that assertion of yours? That's an honest inquiry on my part. I'm trying to get my head around what is the alt-right. The one thing I've become certain of is that it's not as simple as what the Prog Mediacrats portray it to to be.
Like Libertarianism, the Alt-Right seems to be a bit of a mixed bag with various adherrents making their own claims of it's values and beliefs.

I appreciate the attempt on VoxDay to define "altright." There's some stuff in there that runs very close to crossing lines I find unacceptable -- though I understand what's given rise to those white nationalist sounding positions. However, does VoxDay have some special standing to claim that is definitive for the whole altright movement (whatever that is)?

[Netpackrat]

The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA that is nominally encapsulated by Russel Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles, but in reality has devolved towards progressivism.

To the extent the AltRight is progressive does that make it reasonable to argue it is "philosophically leftist?"

I think you are misreading that. He seems to be saying that the mainstream conservative movement has devolved towards progressivism. Hard to argue with that.

[blackeagle603]

Yeah, I think you're correct. Maybe it needs an Oxford comma somewhere in there...

[Weetabix]

That Vox alt-right thing is a bit confusing. It all seems to boil down to "It depends on that the meaning of 'is' is."

The Alt Right is openly and avowedly nationalist. It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration.

This does sound a bit supremacist, but I can see where it comes from. I still believe that immigration, properly handled, is a net benefit.

The Alt Right believes identity > culture > politics.

Not sure what this means. The 31 flavors of LGBWTFBBQ trump culture? He probably doesn't mean that, but I'm not sure what he means.

The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means.

Here's where we get to the meaning of "is." "Non-native ethic group obtaining excessive influence...though...any other means." Is he a "give it back to the Native Americans" guy? Probably not, but he needs to be clearer.

The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.

Probably a reaction to La Raza, BLM, jihadis, etc. It's an interesting point to consider, though. Given that it has historically bad connotations by association, but the liberal white guilt has swung the societal(?), political, and legal pendulum so far the other way that it might be a defensible position.

The Alt Right does not believe in the general supremacy of any race, nation, people, or sub-species. Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species has its own unique strengths and weaknesses, and possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers.

Ah. That clears up the previous point. They are in favor of freedom of association? A Jewish friend of mine told me the other day about a friend of his who was upset when his Jewish country club had to start admitting Christians. I think anyone should be able to have any business or establishment where they can decide whom they serve or admit on any criterion. I know I'd be excluded from a lot of them. Sometimes people want to be with people like them. That's OK with me.

The Alt Right is a philosophy that values peace among the various nations of the world and opposes wars to impose the values of one nation upon another as well as efforts to exterminate individual nations through war, genocide, immigration, or genetic assimilation.

I kind of like that one.

BE - which lines do you see being crossed?

I think the entire problem with all these alt-right/libertarian/conservative/neocon/paleocon discussions is that people use labels they want to apply to them even when they don't mean the same thing to the other people using them.

Plus no one will just use a dictionary (or an Oxford comma) when they ought to. It makes communication nigh impossible.

[Weetabix]

However, does VoxDay have some special standing to claim that is definitive for the whole altright movement (whatever that is)?

Probably just a guy with an opinion trying to nail some stuff down.

[Netpackrat]

The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means.

Here's where we get to the meaning of "is." "Non-native ethic group obtaining excessive influence...though...any other means." Is he a "give it back to the Native Americans" guy? Probably not, but he needs to be clearer.

I think Vox is part American Indian, IIRC.

[Weetabix]

I think you are misreading that. He seems to be saying that the mainstream conservative movement has devolved towards progressivism. Hard to argue with that.

Having just read Kirk's Ten Conservative Principles, I think you're right.

I didn't find anything in that article to disagree with. Though I did have to look up "ineluctable."