Soviet Union without Stalin

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Captain Wheelgun
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Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by Captain Wheelgun »

I have some questions for the history buffs & Cold War veterans here. (Note: Massive spoilers for Book 3)

First, some preliminary info:

The British, Texans, and Free French have defeated the Italians in North Africa by the end of January 1941, so Germany never sends the Afrika Korps there. Also the German invasion of Greece happens more or less like in OTL, but the invasion of Crete fails (thanks to timely reinforcements by our heroes :-).

Given that:

Would the availability of the troops NOT sent to Africa be enough to allow Operation Barbarossa to start in May 1941, instead of June?

Would having more troops and starting a month earlier allow Barbarossa to succeed, at least as far as taking Moscow?

Now for the biggie:

If Stalin dies during the fall of Moscow (he had vowed to stay in the city), Does the USSR collapse?

If not, who takes over for Stalin? A committee or another strongman?

With Stalin gone, how does the early Cold War play out? Does it even happen?

Thanks for your help and ideas.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by Netpackrat »

I think in the end, Stalin runs for it. If there was one central theme regarding his regime in OTL, it's that dying was for other people.
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randy
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by randy »

If Stalin does bite the dust (maybe ambushed by the Luftwaffe when leaving the city?) I would bet on Beria on taking over, as the group that stopped him from assuming power OTL were not in positions of power to do so in 1941.
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Captain Wheelgun
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by Captain Wheelgun »

randy wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:47 pm If Stalin does bite the dust (maybe ambushed by the Luftwaffe when leaving the city?) I would bet on Beria on taking over, as the group that stopped him from assuming power OTL were not in positions of power to do so in 1941.
And if that happens, I imagine the Cold War would be worse than in OTL. Maybe even starting right at the end of WW2.
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tfbncc
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by tfbncc »

OK, this took a lot more thought than I originally planned. Going on your premise, Stalin stays in Moscow and dies a hero of the Soviet Union. I have no idea who would have been strong enough to take his place, so I won't even venture into that cesspool. On the other hand, I think that the end of WW2 would look a lot different. The Allies still roll across Europe liberating all of the Western countries. They cross the Rohn and the Rhine. Hitler still offs himself in his bunker and the Third Reich falls.

At this point is where I see the divergence of history. Say Eisenhower listens to Patton and sees the danger of the Soviet Union. Pottsdam still happens, but with no strong soviet leader yet, Germany and Berlin are not divided but placed in a stewardship of the U.S. and Britain. Poland, Chzechososlovakia, Romania, Hungary, all remain as sovereign nations NOT under the control of the soviets. Eisenhower authorizes the military forces in Europe to continue driving East until pre-war borders are reached and Russia is contained there. In the Mediteranean, Italy is likewise placed in stewardship. Greece still struggles with communist insurgants, but with a stronger US Navy presence in the Eastern med, it is contained to a minimum. Britain still plans to divest itself of responsibility for the middle east and the Suez Canal leaving the door open for the formation of Israel and Palestine, etc. etc.

I am supposing that these questions you are asking is to get inspiration for further Republic of Texas Navy stories. Consider this: In 1949 when Israel declares independence, knowing that they are surrounded by hostile countries on all sides, they invite Texas to open a permanent navy base in Haifa and help protect the fledgling country as it establishes itself. I'll just leave it there and you tell me what you think.

Ray
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HTRN
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by HTRN »

Captain Wheelgun wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:26 pm
randy wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 3:47 pm If Stalin does bite the dust (maybe ambushed by the Luftwaffe when leaving the city?) I would bet on Beria on taking over, as the group that stopped him from assuming power OTL were not in positions of power to do so in 1941.
And if that happens, I imagine the Cold War would be worse than in OTL. Maybe even starting right at the end of WW2.
Considering one of his "hobbies" was raping women of high stature.... yeah. I'm thinking maybe Kruschev maybe steps into the big chair earlier than expected, and gives Beria a 9mm retirement.
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Captain Wheelgun
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by Captain Wheelgun »

tfbncc wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:38 am Snip…

I am supposing that these questions you are asking is to get inspiration for further Republic of Texas Navy stories. Consider this: In 1949 when Israel declares independence, knowing that they are surrounded by hostile countries on all sides, they invite Texas to open a permanent navy base in Haifa and help protect the fledgling country as it establishes itself. I'll just leave it there and you tell me what you think.

Ray
Thanks, Ray. Lots of good ideas there.

I was in fact thinking about having Texas hooking up with Israel, as well as the Republic of China (Taiwan), in the next story arc. Kind of an alliance of outcasts. Really smart outcasts… :twisted:
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Netpackrat
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Re: Soviet Union without Stalin

Post by Netpackrat »

Be interesting to see if the Texans end up at odds with the Rhodesians and South Africans over the race thing, if they end up as allies of convenience, or something else.
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