Ukraine invasion

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Monportlaser
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by Monportlaser »

HTRN wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:38 pm
blackeagle603 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:40 pm ...and we talked the Ukranians out of holding their nukes not so long ago. Because why? Trust us?
Because the Ukraine is an unstable kleptocracy run by a strongman who disappears his political opponents, masquerading as a democracy. Basically a smaller, more corrupt version of Russia. If we had left them nukes, they'd wind up in the hands of a non state actor.

Don't get me wrong, Russia is clearly the aggressor here, but like Georgia, and Crimea, it's a case of replacing rule by autocrat, with rule by autocrat 1500 miles away.

Frankly, the fact that Poland, and Estonia came out of the Warsaw pact years with functional government(Poland I attribute to the Catholic church and Lech Walesa, Estonia came from a long history of opposing the Soviets and having a government in exile not run by criminals), is something of a minor miracle.
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BDK
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by BDK »

Piping NG is expensive, as well.

Oilmen aren’t stupid. They didn’t build those LNG facilities because maritime shipping wouldn’t be cost competitive.
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HTRN
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by HTRN »

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-li ... ent=europe

Take note on who is at the bottom of the list.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by blackeagle603 »

ok that's a pretty unexpected ranking. Not inclined to take it at face value but not in a spot to dig into how that list was calculated and who is on "the masthead" for that site and chart.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by blackeagle603 »

A product of Transparency International which is spawn of The World Bank. Do what you will with that info.

wiki
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story
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blackeagle603
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by blackeagle603 »

A product of Transparency International which is spawn of The World Bank. Do what you will with that info.

wiki
Controversies
According to the newspaper Le Monde: "In its main surveys, Transparency International does not measure the weight of corruption in economic terms for each country. It develops a Corruption Perception Index (CPI) based on surveys conducted by private structures or other NGOs: the Economist Intelligence Unit, backed by the British liberal weekly newspaper The Economist, the American neoconservative organization Freedom House, the World Economic Forum, or large corporations. (...) The IPC ignores corruption cases that concern the business world. So, the collapse of Lehman Brothers (2008) or the manipulation of the money market reference rate (Libor) by major British banks revealed in 2011 did not affect the ratings of the United States or United Kingdom." The organization also receives funding from companies that are themselves convicted of corruption offences.[39] CPI's reliance on opinions of a relatively small group of experts and businesspeople, has been criticised by some. Alex Cobham, fellow at the Center for Global Development, states that it "embeds a powerful and misleading elite bias in popular perceptions of corruption". Others argue it is not plausible to ever measure the true scale and depth of a highly complex issue like corruption with a single number, and then rank countries accordingly.[40]
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story
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HTRN
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by HTRN »

Just because a burglar yells "fire", doesn't mean your house isn't burning down - Zelinsky somehow managed to accrue a nearly half BILLION dollar fortune in only a single term as President. Meanwhile, Pelosi, one of the most egregious members of Congress took 3 decades to get a 130million.
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randy
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by randy »

HTRN wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 7:10 pm Just because a burglar yells "fire", doesn't mean your house isn't burning down - Zelinsky somehow managed to accrue a nearly half BILLION dollar fortune in only a single term as President. Meanwhile, Pelosi, one of the most egregious members of Congress took 3 decades to get a 130million.
Well, if you gotta have a corrupt politician, I believe I'd rather have Zelinsky than Pelosi.

Of course, I'm not sure anymore that there's any such thing as a non-corrupt politician.
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HTRN
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by HTRN »

randy wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 9:43 pm Of course, I'm not sure anymore that there's any such thing as a non-corrupt politician.
They do seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.
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Vonz90
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Re: Ukraine invasion

Post by Vonz90 »

blackeagle603 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 6:50 pm ok that's a pretty unexpected ranking. Not inclined to take it at face value but not in a spot to dig into how that list was calculated and who is on "the masthead" for that site and chart.
I don't know that it is all that unexpected. They had the same as type on institutions as Russia at the breakup. So similar results would be common.

They have at least made some noises about improvement, and not necessarily helped by us. If you recall, VP Biden was instrumental in getting the prosecutor fired that was looking into the company Hunter was working for.

The corruption angle informs how we help and what we should expect from that help. If we should help or not is a larger geopolitical question.
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