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Arrest at Obama rally sparks gun rights debate

By Bill Vidonic, Times Staff
Published: Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:52 PM EDT

John Noble said he’s openly worn a handgun while attending the annual Maple Syrup Festival in Bradys Run Park.

He’s worn it to a Bridgewater book signing.

The Industry man said he’s never been confronted by police over his habit of wearing a holstered pistol on his waist — that is until Aug. 29.

Noble’s arrest at the Barack Obama campaign rally at Beaver’s Irvine Park has raised questions about gun rights.

“There was no disturbance until (law enforcement) made one,” Noble said.

Beaver County District Attorney Anthony Berosh said the issue isn’t whether Noble was legally carrying a gun. State police said Noble did not violate the state’s open carry law, under which you don’t need a permit to carry a weapon in plain sight.

Instead, Berosh said, it’s a battle between two constitutional rights: The right to bear arms and the right to assemble peaceably and without fear.

More..............

Openly carrying a firearm to an Obama rally. What a perfect way to make open carry/CCW advocates look like nutjobs.

There's a real line here you have to think about crossing. Any sense of risk management would tell you that you're making an excellent target of yourself doing this. There have been, I'm sure, numerous assassination threats that the USSS is working through that they don't exactly make public. Openly carrying to an Obama rally would be akin to wearing a giant neon sign that says "Potential assassin. Take me down." to local, state and federal police departments. At the very least, you could expect every nanosecond of your time there, once spotted, to be heavily monitored and escorted.

OTOH, he is exercising a legal right. Just in a dumb way. No one ever said dumb was illegal though. It might be possible this arrest could spark debate on the 2nd, like Heller did. While I'm almost positive he would be charged with something less than a gun violation, he probably caught a "Disturbing the Peace" charge rather quickly.

In the end, the whole affair might simply be dropped once Obama is out of there, or a disturbing the peace charge might stick, depending on the attitudes of the DA and the judge. If the guy simply wanted to exercise his rights, I'm behind him 100%. If he was looking to make a political statement, he might have wanted to start low and work up to things like presidential candidates.

Chase +1.

Chase wrote:There's a real line here you have to think about crossing. Any sense of risk management would tell you that you're making an excellent target of yourself doing this. There have been, I'm sure, numerous assassination threats that the USSS is working through that they don't exactly make public. Openly carrying to an Obama rally would be akin to wearing a giant neon sign that says "Potential assassin. Take me down." to local, state and federal police departments. At the very least, you could expect every nanosecond of your time there, once spotted, to be heavily monitored and escorted.

And you could expect well-meaning law enforcement to say, "Look, we can't effectively scan the crowd to protect candidates if people show up openly carrying guns, because we have to watch those people constantly. It's an unreasonable distraction and danger to the public good."

OTOH, he is exercising a legal right. Just in a dumb way. No one ever said dumb was illegal though.

Sure they did. Dumb + dangerous + publicity will often = Illegal. The guy specifically posted on a message board to "bring your bibles and guns." He wanted to provoke an unreasonably absolutist argument that the vast majority of voters will reject as a matter of course. The preferred implement for assassination in Presidential politics is the firearm. Up until now it's been common sense that you don't openly wear a gun and try to hang out around Presidential candidates. When people start pushing the boundaries, laws get passed, and those laws often go further than responding to just the one instance.

Blatant stupidity on this guy's part. The anti-gun lobbies are in all likelihood cheering over this.

Dumb + dangerous + publicity will often = Illegal.

This is subjective reasoning. I have no doubt the anti's are happy about this, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that this state's open carry law doesn't mention presidential candidate rallys being the exeption to the law. What other state laws does a presidential candidate's presence suspend? Obama is a nut job, not a null field.

If he didn't meet ALL the elements for a crime, then a crime didn't happen. If the statute for open carry in this state doesn't specifically mention open carry at public gatherings, like the mentioned Maple Syrup Festival, then he's covered. In this particular case, we do not, and will not, know what threats the USSS and law enforcement are being proactive about. Neither did he, but at some level he had to be guessing.

This brings us back to his choice. He either, willfully and purposefully, chose to exercise a right he possess, and got pinched for it, or he chose to exercise his right to make a statement, and got pinched for it. For the former, I say he has my support. For the latter, I say he should have seen this one coming.

Spells wrote:

Chase wrote:There's a real line here you have to think about crossing. Any sense of risk management would tell you that you're making an excellent target of yourself doing this. There have been, I'm sure, numerous assassination threats that the USSS is working through that they don't exactly make public. Openly carrying to an Obama rally would be akin to wearing a giant neon sign that says "Potential assassin. Take me down." to local, state and federal police departments. At the very least, you could expect every nanosecond of your time there, once spotted, to be heavily monitored and escorted.

And you could expect well-meaning law enforcement to say, "Look, we can't effectively scan the crowd to protect candidates if people show up openly carrying guns, because we have to watch those people constantly. It's an unreasonable distraction and danger to the public good."

OTOH, he is exercising a legal right. Just in a dumb way. No one ever said dumb was illegal though.

Sure they did. Dumb + dangerous + publicity will often = Illegal. The guy specifically posted on a message board to "bring your bibles and guns." He wanted to provoke an unreasonably absolutist argument that the vast majority of voters will reject as a matter of course. The preferred implement for assassination in Presidential politics is the firearm. Up until now it's been common sense that you don't openly wear a gun and try to hang out around Presidential candidates. When people start pushing the boundaries, laws get passed, and those laws often go further than responding to just the one instance.

Blatant stupidity on this guy's part. The anti-gun lobbies are in all likelihood cheering over this.

except he never entered the rally, he never broke any laws and was harassed and had his property confiscated by law enforcement. he never made any threats nor did he draw his gun.

sounds like overzealous law enforcement and a violation of his rights to me. plus theft of a firearm under the color of law.

This happened in a state (PA) that has had several high profile open carry arrests along the same lines within the past couple of months including one where the open carry PA group was harassed at their meeting of which the restaurant they were at was endorsing.

This is just one more in a long list of issues like this in PA.

they are up to 69 pages in the discussion forum

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-op ... -site.html

looks like this guy is an Opencarry.org and a pafoa.org member

Obama's rights to free speech and assembly do not supersede his rights to carry a gun.

Chase wrote:

Dumb + dangerous + publicity will often = Illegal.

This is subjective reasoning. I have no doubt the anti's are happy about this, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that this state's open carry law doesn't mention presidential candidate rallys being the exeption to the law. What other state laws does a presidential candidate's presence suspend?

I'm not sure I was clear. I am sure that the open carry law does not exclude presidential rallies. My concern is that new laws will be passed that will implement all sorts of restrictions since idiots push the boundaries of common sense, and political opponents of gun rights will swoop in and easily win the argument.

In this particular case, we do not, and will not, know what threats the USSS and law enforcement are being proactive about. Neither did he, but at some level he had to be guessing.

Oh please. The USSS is obviously concerned about somebody shooting the candidate, since that historically exactly how they are killed, and everybody does in fact know that. Somebody displaying a gun is clearly going to be considered a potential threat. You are being intellectually dishonest.

looks like this guy is an Opencarry.org and a pafoa.org member

Obama's rights to free speech and assembly do not supersede his rights to carry a gun.

It has nothing to do with Obama's rights. Your statement would be funny if so many people didn't believe it, and if the lunacy of that position and ones like it didn't poison common sense arguments for gun rights. Instead it's sad.