The Gun Counter

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454705,00.html

GLENSHAW, Pa. — A former Baltimore police officer who had been an FBI agent for less than two years was shot and killed Wednesday while serving a warrant at a home near Pittsburgh, and an alleged cocaine dealer who lived there was taken into custody.

Special Agent Samuel Hicks, who was taking part in a drug-ring roundup, was shot around 6 a.m. in Indiana Township, a middle-class community about 10 miles northeast of Pittsburgh.

The home's owner, Robert Korbe, was in federal custody in connection with the shooting, said a person familiar with the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity pending an official announcement.

read the whole thing.

Ok now my question... what the hell were they doing conducting a raid on a residence at before 6 am... what did they think was going to happen?

the local news actually says that they conducted the raid shortly after 4 am...

and why the hell was the FBI conducting a drug raid, does the DEA not exist any more?

how many more cops have to die before they realize that drug warrants do not justify rapid tactical entries?

As someone stated in a nother thread, they are expendable pawns. Their senior officials don't care about them dying, because they offer more potential to weild more power, or to reduce the potential power of the citizenry.

There are lots of reasons why things happen the way they do, and the fact the FBI was conducting the raid indicates more federal laws were broken besides just drug trafficking. Drug dealers don't usually operate on regular 9-5 hours, deliveries come and go at all hours and they usually try and catch them with the most people at the scene as possible.

The timing of the raid could have been forced due to compromised surveillance, changes in suspects behavior, there's all kinds of reasons why they did things the way they did, but without knowing what happened and why, there's no way to accurately know what happened until it comes out in court.

sorry, but in a residential area, the only justification for a swat raid is the threat of immediate harm... unless there is a hostage or someone shooting out the windows... there are other ways to deal with the problem...

and this isnt a argument as to weather or not the warrant was justified... i believe that it most likely was...

the problem is, police are using the justification that these raids are necessary to prevent evidence destruction... but in my eyes, these raids are escalating a situation into violence... not that drug dealing isnt a violent crime. But these raids are conducted in situations where there isnt an immediate threat of violence and thus the raid itself escalates the situation.

These people act like burglars and then they get surprised when they get shot like burglars.

See, the drug dealers haven't been seen as dangerous for a while in that area. Getting a SWAT officer killed solves that problem for the administration so they can whore more money out of Congress.

(Gee, aren't these guys supposed to be wearing armor?)

Ok now my question... what the hell were they doing conducting a raid on a residence at before 6 am... what did they think was going to happen?

the local news actually says that they conducted the raid shortly after 4 am...

and why the hell was the FBI conducting a drug raid, does the DEA not exist any more?

how many more cops have to die before they realize that drug warrants do not justify rapid tactical entries?

Now my questions:

Who in Hades are you to question, in such a disrespectful manner for the deceased and his family and his coworkers, the probable lawful actions of law enforcement officers who were probably performing their legal duties. You have no clue as to why the raid was conducted at 0400, no idea as to how the entry was performed except that the agent was shot. Sure you can question what you want, this is the US of A and you have the right, but why not in a more respectful tone for the family of the fallen agent? Is it you just hate LEOs?

I wonder, when such entries are made, do you know how they work? In just how many have you participated? I have participated in hundreds of such operations during the dark hours and during daylight hours. I can say the folowing based upon expereince: The tactics used on a raid, the time chosen for it, the type of weapons brought along, the other equipment brought along, whether a no knock warrant is obtained, which agencies participate, who enters first, if dogs are used, all depend upon multiple variables one of the most important being probable cause, and another very important one being officer safety and safety of the public. These things are not something usually taken lightly. While I cannot speak for this specific case simply because I AM NOT AWARE OF ALL OF THE ACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCES, I wonder how it is that you are aware enough to be so gosh darned know it all, at least by implication, and how you can be seemingly so disrespectful, all apparently without all of the facts being available to you.

You and some others here though act as if a bunch of dimwitted arsehats charged in wearing black ninja outfits without identifying themselves and the honest, hard working, regular GOOD guys, mama and papa, who went to church everyday, and who always were courteous and nice, but thought they were being robbed and needed to defend themselves acted properly by killing the agent. I swear that is the vibe I get from your posts. Is there another view you might be able to envision? Maybe the peope inside the home being raided were known hard criminals. Maybe they were evil mother fuckers and who thought holy shit these must be other evil motherfuckers intent on killing us to take away our drugs or drug money and we better kill em all before they get our dope. Did you ever wonder for a moment if the LEOs had probable cause to believe that these people were armed and dangerous in addition to being alleged drug dealers. Maybe they have long records including armed assault, or maybe the police had intelligenc eon them indicating they were mean bastards who would shoot to kill in the event of a raid.

Maybe there were a lot of valid and verifiable reasons for the LEOs to do this at the hour it was done, one being the element of surprise, another being the fact that the officers might have a tactical advantage (granted which does not always work but is worth taking advantage of), another being that maybe the guy was only usually home in the late night or early AM, maybe that this is the hour that the drugs or contraband would be in the house, another being that at 0400 there is less likelihood of a bunch of neighborhoods kids getting in the way or in the line of fire (would this have been better at 4PM not long after school got out or would the LEOs still get bad heaped upon them by you then too). Sure a guy can still be shot, but you know something, that is a risk of the job since the good guys go after bad assed motherfuckers who think that anyone else’s life is dirt cheap.

When it comes right down to it, you cannot reasonably comment on the circumstances of this warrant/raid/shooting/killing without knowledge of just what were those actual circumstances. So please, if not for respect toward the fallen agent, then for the sake of his family and friends, why not at least show some respectful restraint until you know some good deal of the facts relative to this case instead of the meager amount you can gather from that article.

With respect,
Glenn B

if you think i am just out to demonize the cops you are sadly wrong... but they do screw up, often in big ways...

Just ask Ryan Fredrick up in VA... oh wait, you cant... he is on trial for murder for defending his house...

ok lets ask Kathryn Johnston instead... oh wait... the 92 year old from Atlanta is dead...

ok how about the mayor of Berwyn Heights, MD... well he's still alive, but both of his dogs were killed...

as for who am i to question... how about a tax payer that funds the departments that keep on doing these kinds of raids that end up getting people killed? or maybe a citizen that is concerned that one day it will be my door that mistakenly gets kicked in...

as far as im concerned, if even one innocent persons door gets kicked in, then the whole methodology is unjust and shouldn't be used. but to some people, specifically those in charge of police units... the occasional innocent getting their door kicked in is worth the trouble...

Are you saying they raided an innocent's house, and the officer died due to a mistaken raid?

If they raided the right house and did everything correctly, yet this officer was killed while performing his job, why do you act like they messed up causing his death when you don't even have all the information other than the media reports?

Just because other places and departments have had screw-ups doesn't mean EVERY time they serve a warrant or raid it's a mistake. That's a rather LARGE brush you're using there.

308Mike wrote:Are you saying they raided an innocent's house, and the officer died due to a mistaken raid?

If they raided the right house and did everything correctly, yet this officer was killed while performing his job, why do you act like they messed up causing his death when you don't even have all the information other than the media reports?

Just because other places and departments have had screw-ups doesn't mean EVERY time they serve a warrant or raid it's a mistake. That's a rather LARGE brush you're using there.

From today's articles... they raided a family's house with an arrest warrant for the father...

the mother, scared out of her mind and protecting her 2 children, shot the intruder, then immediately called 911 to call the local police out to deal with a home invader and was still on the phone when she was arrested...

so, should her right to defend her home and children be suspended because another resident of the house has a warrant? course she has now been charged with murder...

just strikes me as a bad policy that keeps getting people killed... what, the father never goes to the gas station or the grocery store? the only safe place to arrest him was at 6 am while his kids were getting ready for school... sorry, but these policies are flawed... and people are dying because of it.