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California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:40 pm
by 308Mike
Linkarooni
Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
By MAREK WARSZAWSKI
THE FRESNO BEE
last updated: September 19, 2008 03:15:19 AM
For deer hunters like Aaron Walls of Fresno, Saturday's opener is an annual family tradition.
Walls and his brother have spent hours scouting. They've installed remote cameras on game trails. They've purchased deer and bear tags for D7, the state hunting zone that includes most of eastern Fresno and Madera counties, and plan to be in the mountains tonight.
This year, the only difference is the type of ammunition Walls and other hunters are packing to comply with California's recent ban on lead bullets within 2,385 square miles of condor range. Zone D7 is the northern and easternmost area covered by the new law. Zones D5 and D6 are excluded from the new law. Zone D5 runs north of Tuolumne County, and D6 runs from the Madera/Mariposa county lines to Tuolumne County and west to Interstate 5.
More..............
Re: California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 pm
by mousegun
Walls will follow along, even though he disagrees. After some checking, he purchased a box of copper bullets for his 720mm magnum rifle. It cost $58, almost double a similar box of lead.
"I've been hunting D7 since I passed the safety course, and I've never seen a condor," Walls said. "It's just a way to make some money off hunters, and it's an extra hassle for wardens."
I'll bet it is a hassle for wardens....imagine what a hassle it is lugging a 29" [strike]cannon[/strike] magnum rifle around with you. Heck, that's only a little smaller than Dora; probable not too hard to find that hunting camp in the woods.
Alex.......I'll take Federal laws for $1,000.
Freaking stupid ass reporters
Re: California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:15 pm
by 308Mike
Yeah, and here's some more info they don't elaborate on:
Kevin O'Connor, wildlife manager for the Central Region of the Department of Fish and Game, pointed out that .308-caliber lead ammunition travels 1,970 feet per second to 400 yards; non-lead ammo travels 2,040 feet per second.
And on
the next page it continues:
"It flies faster and hits harder than your standard ammunition," O'Connor said.
Even though the legislation provides subsidies to hunters who purchase more expensive non-lead bullets, the state has yet to fund it.
Just because it flies faster does NOT necessarily mean it hits harder.
Re: California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:17 am
by mekender
308Mike wrote:Yeah, and here's some more info they don't elaborate on:
Kevin O'Connor, wildlife manager for the Central Region of the Department of Fish and Game, pointed out that .308-caliber lead ammunition travels 1,970 feet per second to 400 yards; non-lead ammo travels 2,040 feet per second.
And on
the next page it continues:
"It flies faster and hits harder than your standard ammunition," O'Connor said.
Even though the legislation provides subsidies to hunters who purchase more expensive non-lead bullets, the state has yet to fund it.
Just because it flies faster does NOT necessarily mean it hits harder.
two projectiles of the same mass traveling at different velocities will carry different amounts of energy with the faster one having more. so yes, it would actually hit with more force. However its performance on impact would determine the amount of damage it would do and a faster round could indeed cause less damage than a slower one.
Re: California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:56 pm
by 308Mike
But they didn't say anything about the WEIGHT of the bullets, only the speed. A 90 gr bullet traveling at the faster speed is not going to hit harder than a 150 gr bullet at the slightly slower speed.
Re: California: Deer hunters take shot at ban on lead bullets
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:33 pm
by mekender
308Mike wrote:But they didn't say anything about the WEIGHT of the bullets, only the speed. A 90 gr bullet traveling at the faster speed is not going to hit harder than a 150 gr bullet at the slightly slower speed.
depends on the differences in speed... Velocity increases Energy much more than mass does... the equation is:
E = m • v^2 / (2 • 32.1739 • 7000).
so for every m/s that you increase, you get a much bigger return than for every grain you increase.
a quick look at midway shows lead free ammo available for .308 from 168gr up to 180 and perhaps beyond... that is damn near the same as what is used with FMJ ammo... not to mention that the numbers quoted in the article about about 500fps lower than the loading tables that i am looking at for both types of rounds.
please do not think that i agree with the ban, i think its a moronic thing and needs to go away...