On Jury Nullification

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PawPaw
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by PawPaw »

Greg wrote:If all the criminal stuff went to trial, the system would collapse.
Exactly right, although I don't know if "collapse" is the right word. More like "gridlock". The math is fairly simple. Let's take, as an example, a small judicial district in a middling state. (which is where the bulk of my experience is). You generally have two judges that split the felony docket. Generally, it takes two or three days to do a jury trial, so each judge can do two jury trials a week, if they focus on nothing else. Not misdemeanors, not divorces, not civil suits, Only criminal felony jury cases. Two trials per week. If you figure 50 weeks (with two weeks off for Christmas) then they can do 100 felony jury trials.

Yeah, right. That ain't happening. With all the other things that a small jurisdiction judge has to do (Civil, criminal, family, misdemeanor) a small court will have about 6 criminal jury terms per year, so they can only try 12 cases. That's it. The huge bulk of criminal felony convictions are from plea-bargains.

I was once in a court process called "pre-trial disposition", a fairly common occurrence where all the pleas are discussed and the docket is whittled down prior to a jury term. The District Attorney was being an asshole and wouldn't make a proper deal, so the Indigent Defender simply stood up and announced Ready For Trial on all his (over 100) cases. The judge freaked-the-shit-out because he knew that his summer cruise had just gone down like the Titanic. Still, the Ignorant Defender stood his ground, and maintained that all his clients were charged with felonies, had an absolute right to a jury, and again announced Ready for Trial.

Our criminal justice system is based on the plea-bargain, and anyone who believes anything else is watching too much TV.
Dennis Dezendorf
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Aesop
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by Aesop »

Got called once, between semesters of nursing school.
Six days total.
Felony burglary, one day for prosecution, two days for defense to argue that the eyewitness that followed the accused on foot for 10 blocks carrying a pillowcase full of valuables from the scene into his own apartment, where the po-po arrested him, was some other 6'2" black guy, then tried to get a taxi driver to intimate that he'd carried the real perpetrator with the pillowcase of goods in question from the apartment to points unknown.

All that did was explain to the jury why the defendant hadn't had the goods by the time the eyewitness had gone to call 911, and returned with L.A.'s finest.

Two days to convict him, mainly because one bright union employee civil servant had seen Twelve Angry Men, and was determined to make sure the first vote (which was 11-1) wasn't to convict. It was 3PM when we started deliberations, so we went home, came back next morning, convicted him 12-0, and were then dismissed.

We told the (barely shaving yet) A.D.A. afterwards that if his case had been any better, it would have been a slam dunk, and if it had been any worse, we'd have acquitted. I'm sure he was working 200 cases, but if his performance was indicative of diligence, take the Fifth and take your chances.
Counsel for defense shrugged, because that level of official indifference, and a hope of jury mental retardation, was well-placed, just not quite well enough for his client, who we learned after the fact was no stranger to the judicial system, and fighting what was evidently going to be his third strike. Boo frickin' hoo.

We had three fairly bright people, 6 average ones, and three genuine numbskulls on the jury, including our city employee, whose best use would have been as dog chow if I were emperor for the day. I can completely understand murder in the jury room (which should be justifiable homicide in all cases), and why I think they should simply cut the crap, empanel 23 jurors in all felony cases, and if they get 12 votes or more either way, go with it.

Jury summons should be by deputies with a party van, conducted on lunch hours on the streets and eateries of the city, no excuses, no waivers, 10 days in the pool, followed by no further calls until everyone in that district has served once.

In several subsequent notifications, once I note that I see approximately 90% of the local officers in any given year, they thank me and send me home.
As they pull notifications from registered voters, and voting becomes increasingly a waste of time, I may simply forgo both privileges.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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PawPaw
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Re: On Jury Nullification

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Aesop wrote:Jury summons should be by deputies with a party van, conducted on lunch hours on the streets and eateries of the city, no excuses, no waivers
That's called a Tales Jury, and trust me, you do not want to go there. Going out and press-ganging people is not a great way to do business. It's effective, but it leads to insurrection.
As they pull notifications from registered voters, and voting becomes increasingly a waste of time, I may simply forgo both privileges.
You're not the first one to notice that. Some states have gone to driving license records, which increases the pool considerably.
Dennis Dezendorf
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by Aesop »

PawPaw wrote:
Aesop wrote:Jury summons should be by deputies with a party van, conducted on lunch hours on the streets and eateries of the city, no excuses, no waivers
That's called a Tales Jury, and trust me, you do not want to go there. Going out and press-ganging people is not a great way to do business. It's effective, but it leads to insurrection.
You say that like it's a bad thing. 8-)
As they pull notifications from registered voters, and voting becomes increasingly a waste of time, I may simply forgo both privileges.
You're not the first one to notice that. Some states have gone to driving license records, which increases the pool considerably.
Maybe in LA. Not so much in CA.
If they would pull the selectees from English-speakers with a job and a high school diploma, you might be onto something.
But looking at court decisions, I'm afraid insisting on that standard would put serving on the bench out of reach of many of our top jurists hereabouts. :roll:
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Rich Jordan
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by Rich Jordan »

In crook county you get called for one day. If empaneled you're in for the duration; if declined you go back to the waiting room unless released; if they call you to a courtroom for selection in the afternoon then you get to come back the next day, but then you're selected or get to go home; otherwise you're done. You get paid the princely sum of $17.20 per day.

I really wouldn't mind it, but I live a few hundred feet from the northern county line, northernmost town in the county, and every darn time I get summoned its to the cesspool southside chicago court building (26th and california). Either long crappy drive through bad (but not the worst) neighborhoods with long lines jamming the nearest streets to get into parking, or take the train which means going in escorted groups between the courthouse and the train station (at least the one time I took the train). Either way a 90 to 120 minute commute.

There are suburban courts. Nobody I've ever met except one south side woman in the waiting room was ever called to the northwest suburban courts. A few get called to the downtown federal building. Most get the cesspool.

But hey, its chicago. Thats where all the damn crooks are I guess.
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Netpackrat
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by Netpackrat »

In Alaska they pull from the Permanent Fund Dividend list, which everybody is on.
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308Mike
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by 308Mike »

Netpackrat wrote:In Alaska they pull from the Permanent Fund Dividend list, which everybody is on.
From Wiki:
Requisite of Jury Duty

Alaska State Statutes - Section 09.20.050: Jury list. "(b) The jury list shall be based on a list prepared by the Department of Revenue of all persons who filed an application for a distribution of Alaska permanent fund income under AS 43.23"

Excuse from Jury Duty due to health reasons is written into Alaska State Statute "AS 09.20.030. Exemptions.(a) A person may claim exemption and may be excused from service as a juror if it is shown that the person's health, the health or proper care of the person's family, a permanent physical or mental disability, or other substantial hardship expected to last more than two years makes it necessary for the person to be excused, or if the person is a judicial officer." However, commonly issued US Government letters for proof of disability are denied as proof of disability, and only a Doctor letter is acceptable as further specified within "Alaska Court System";"Alaska Rules of Administration"; "Rule 15. Jurors", which are enacted by the Alaska Supreme Court. (Need reference material.) The disabled should assume letters from the Doctor can be troublesome to acquire, detail lengthy delays, or Doctors may refuse to sign anything at all. Bottom line, if you are disabled or think you may encur difficulties during the next year after accepting your PFD, it maybe best to refuse the money rather than to deal with the Judge signing an arrest warrant and ordering the Alaska State Troopers to arrest for Contempt of Court.
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad
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PawPaw
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by PawPaw »

My mother was once called and selected to sit on a grand jury. They'd meet every two weeks for an afternoon to hear evidence on indictments. The term of the grand jury was six months, and she loved every minute of it. Of course, she was raising kids at the time (I was a teenager, eldest of seven), and Dad would come home to watch us while Mom was doing her patriotic chore. And, of course, she was sworn to secrecy, so she knew all the dirt but couldn't talk about it. When Dad was reading the paper, he'd comment on a particular case pending, and Mom would smile a knowing smile and say that she couldn't talk about it. It drove Dad crazy.
Dennis Dezendorf
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Termite
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Re: On Jury Nullification

Post by Termite »

Surviving voir dire is the biggest issue for folks like us.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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