Teaching In A Ghetto School

[Weetabix]

Oh, yeah - "shovel-ready" generally refers to having completed plans and permitting - i.e. ready to start construction.

If the tech for infrastructure requires too much skill, that's just because labor has become more expensive. With an abundance of labor available, the lower tech construction methods become viable again, so it's a self-correcting problem.

[dfwmtx]

You sound suspiciously like one of the voices in my head. I've been floating this for years.

I'd be surprised if moderates and centrists haven't been toying with the same idea for years.

Rather than give them money, though, I'd give them policed housing, cafeterias, and issue clothing & shoes.

Ditto, but there'd be a small monetary stipend in addition to basic necessities. It might be less than minimum wage, but still something.

You still have the pesky problem of people who legitimately can't work.

Agreed. I know there are folks who legitimately cannot find work due to their infirmities, and I haven't yet figured out a way to separate them from the fraudsters. Even so, I still wondering if there's some task they can be retrained for. If you can't use your body, be trained to use your mind. Answer gvt. call centers, or 911 lines, do filing work, something. If you don't work, you won't eat on the government's dime. Go seek private charity then. Obligations of the welfare state are as large as our defense budget.

I'd try to address that one with a graduated scale of benefits:

- no work performed, you get basic nutrition, basic accommodations, very basic clothes
- more valuable work gets better variety in the food, more creature comforts, more comfortable clothes.

Pretty much.

And when people complain that this is unfaaaaaaaiiiiir, tell them these people have no obligation to participate in this program. It's entirely voluntary.

If people complain to me it's unfair, I'd tell them my original plan was to repurpose all funds for the welfare state to other government agencies I like better which I think would benefit society more with technological development, such as NASA and DARPA and all.

[Weetabix]

I know there are folks who legitimately cannot find work due to their infirmities, and I haven't yet figured out a way to separate them from the fraudsters. Even so, I still wondering if there's some task they can be retrained for. If you can't use your body, be trained to use your mind. Answer gvt. call centers, or 911 lines, do filing work, something. If you don't work, you won't eat on the government's dime. Go seek private charity then. Obligations of the welfare state are as large as our defense budget.

Private charity would pick them up, too, once it was clear the government wouldn't. And the load would be much smaller.

[workinwifdakids]

He could have written that letter. He made it five years before becoming so disgusted that he left for the greener pastures of a wealthy suburban system. Unfortunately he brought along his Paterson-acquired boozing habit and died of at the ripe old age of 47.

Five years is a funny number in education: it's the year by which 50% of teachers leave education, never to return.

Though that statistic is startling, especially among the "What job could be easier than teaching?" crowd, what's behind the curtain makes the statistic more incredible. Almost all elementary school teachers have a 4-year degree in something like liberal studies, an arts and soft sciences degree which is generally useless outside the school walls. In addition, they all have a 2-year teaching credential which is the equivalent of an MA, which is obviously more useless than their BA if not for teaching. So, when literally half of all teachers walk away for good, they leave conscientiously throwing away somewhere between 2 and 6 years of college, and it's WORTH IT to them. This doesn't include those who have an ADDITIONAL masters in something like educational leadership or some such.

I think whatever conversations we have about teachers ought to include that.

The bigger snag isn't the kids, who are still teachable, but from the imminently unemployed teachers, who'd be far more likely to need the ministrations of National Guardsmen with 3' batons.

It's not often I disagree with you, but today's our lucky day. The kids are still teachable? Come on down. Take a swing at it. I'd wager 75% - 90% of the active members of this board wouldn't last a single year.

In fact, I'll bet 75% to 90% of the active members of this board wouldn't last a single year teaching not just in this education system, but in any education system you could devise. And for those of you who say home school, I'll similarly wager that your own children couldn't pass the High School Exit Exam for California if you alone home-schooled your kid for 13 years, given you worked 40 hour weeks the entire 13 years.

I'll be even plainer: I could virtually guarantee that 50% of the people who have posted on this board in the last year couldn't pass California's 5th Grade Standardized Test. This isn't a slam against this board; it's a statement to how completely oblivious almost every American is from the rubric by which we judge success.

And as far as great masses of unemployed starving teachers waving giant Chinese flags on 20-foot poles at tracked vehicles who are spraying tear gas at them like from a fire hose, it's a cute fantasy. Unfortunately, you don't know teachers. Have you seen pictures of teachers protesting a 10% salary decrease, a 5% increase in students, a 20% drop in materials, no new textbooks in the last 12 years, and 15% RIFs? Yeah. There were like 20 protesters on a corner for our district. Most teachers are soft liberals - that is, they have their knee-jerk reactions, but their politics extends to not complaining when the union forcibly takes $100 a month from our checks.

Me? I've said it before. I'm a conservative/libertarian teacher, which means from either end I'm sort of an orphan.

[Weetabix]

Five years is a funny number in education: it's the year by which 50% of teachers leave education, never to return.

Though that statistic is startling, especially among the "What job could be easier than teaching?" crowd, what's behind the curtain makes the statistic more incredible. Almost all elementary school teachers have a 4-year degree in something like liberal studies, an arts and soft sciences degree which is generally useless outside the school walls. In addition, they all have a 2-year teaching credential which is the equivalent of an MA, which is obviously more useless than their BA if not for teaching. So, when literally half of all teachers walk away for good, they leave conscientiously throwing away somewhere between 2 and 6 years of college, and it's WORTH IT to them. This doesn't include those who have an ADDITIONAL masters in something like educational leadership or some such.

I think whatever conversations we have about teachers ought to include that.

Can you be more specific? Are you saying there's something wrong with most teachers going in? Or that the kids are such that almost no one could survive them? Or something else? Not challenging - just trying to understand.

In fact, I'll bet 75% to 90% of the active members of this board wouldn't last a single year teaching not just in this education system, but in any education system you could devise. And for those of you who say home school, I'll similarly wager that your own children couldn't pass the High School Exit Exam for California if you alone home-schooled your kid for 13 years, given you worked 40 hour weeks the entire 13 years.

Mrs. 'Bix did pretty well. Our oldest is on a full ride in college, right now. The full ride is a cobble of several scholarships, but the majority of it is based on ACT scores. /bragging

I'll be even plainer: I could virtually guarantee that 50% of the people who have posted on this board in the last year couldn't pass California's 5th Grade Standardized Test. This isn't a slam against this board; it's a statement to how completely oblivious almost every American is from the rubric by which we judge success.

Are you saying the rubric is wrong or that most people aren't that smart/educated?

[workinwifdakids]

Five years is a funny number in education: it's the year by which 50% of teachers leave education, never to return.

Though that statistic is startling, especially among the "What job could be easier than teaching?" crowd, what's behind the curtain makes the statistic more incredible. Almost all elementary school teachers have a 4-year degree in something like liberal studies, an arts and soft sciences degree which is generally useless outside the school walls. In addition, they all have a 2-year teaching credential which is the equivalent of an MA, which is obviously more useless than their BA if not for teaching. So, when literally half of all teachers walk away for good, they leave conscientiously throwing away somewhere between 2 and 6 years of college, and it's WORTH IT to them. This doesn't include those who have an ADDITIONAL masters in something like educational leadership or some such.

I think whatever conversations we have about teachers ought to include that.

Can you be more specific? Are you saying there's something wrong with most teachers going in? Or that the kids are such that almost no one could survive them? Or something else? Not challenging - just trying to understand.
Feel free to challenge, but thanks for the question. Imagine going into a job that you spent 6 years of your life preparing for, and the result is soul-crushing. You're caught between too many kids who are so far behind they can't possibly catch up, too many kids who don't want to learn, an active minority who habitually try to sabotage your classroom, a union you're forced to join that most people associate you with, and a 20 to 30 year stint being blamed for most of what's wrong with America. Literally, it's soul crushing - knowing that you and your job are criticized as being THE problem with America. Some people say, "Hey, cops get blamed!" Yeah, but cops occasionally have pictures running into gunfire, or running out of a crash holding a baby. We get nothing except an occasional success story we get to remember.

In fact, I'll bet 75% to 90% of the active members of this board wouldn't last a single year teaching not just in this education system, but in any education system you could devise. And for those of you who say home school, I'll similarly wager that your own children couldn't pass the High School Exit Exam for California if you alone home-schooled your kid for 13 years, given you worked 40 hour weeks the entire 13 years.

Mrs. 'Bix did pretty well. Our oldest is on a full ride in college, right now. The full ride is a cobble of several scholarships, but the majority of it is based on ACT scores. /bragging

You should brag. It's a big accomplishment.

I'll be even plainer: I could virtually guarantee that 50% of the people who have posted on this board in the last year couldn't pass California's 5th Grade Standardized Test. This isn't a slam against this board; it's a statement to how completely oblivious almost every American is from the rubric by which we judge success.

Are you saying the rubric is wrong or that most people aren't that smart/educated?[/quote]
Both.

[Aesop]

No hammocks.
No hammock-making companies.
No companies making feather bed mattresses for the hammocks.

Simply turn the little monsters loose on the consequences in life.
Y'know, like everyone else contends with 24/7/365/forever.

Study, learn, get skills or education, get a good job, have a nice life.
Screw up, get nothing, starve.
Screw up massively, get thumped, wear stripes and a ball and chain, fill in tar roads on July days.

You can invent a better mousetrap, work for the company that builds them, or get caught in one, I don't care which.
Make your choices, eat the consequences. Steak, hamburger, or a mouthful of rocks.
Either way, your cost and incovenience to others is between none and minimal, as it should be.

The boo-hoo sob story socialism that's ballooned since the 1930s is going to end voluntarly, or at the end of a broken bottle, but it's going to end, because, in the words of Lincoln, "there's too many piglets for the tits."

[Aglifter]

I would be astounded if 50% of the boards couldn't pass a 5th grade exit exam - provided it was one a normal subject, and not "socialist explanations of the plight of the native tribes of the CA coastline."

The public school system isn't working, whereas private schools do, for far less money.

Some of that us public schools usually have the disabled, but much if it is because private schools treat monsters like monsters.

To paraphrase Aesop, it's far easier to lock up the monsters than make everything else monster proof.

[skb12172]

Workin is right. Aesop has some good points, but while manty of them might work, they are impossible to implement in this culture/society we have created, The fact remains, unless you have done the job, it is true that you simply have no idea of what you are talking about. As for "whipping them into shape" or similar philosophies, good luck getting that done in this political climate

[slowpoke]

The fifty percent stop teaching by five years because that's when they have their first kid. Over 90 percent of teaching graduates are female. Since they're college educated their husbands are also likely to be and able to support them as they become stay at home moms. I bet if you look at four year or six year degrees of women in other fields there will also be a greater than fifty percent drop off by year five.