The Gun Counter

Maybe this should be in politics, but this is more about culture anyways but can also fit into "Gripes, Grumbles, and Bitching"

What really grinds my gears is people talking about Shark Fin, and no I don't mean about the people who harvest and eat it.

"Huh? What? You're pro Shark-Fin?"

*sigh* So some background might be needed...

I am a first generation born Canadian, who is Asian decedent from a Chinese family born in Vietnam. Personally I'm not a very good Chinese kid. I can't write Chinese fluently, can only speak Cantonese, and don't give 2 craps about the People Republic of China, in fact I despise it. I'm not one who you can say is "in touch" with his Chinese heritage.

Still... This video from Gordon Ramsay about Shark Fin built up this almost instinctive, animal-like outrage from me.

It's not even that rational of my outrage either. It's not like what they say about hunting sharks isn't true, or that slicing up the fins and tossing them into the ocean while still alive isn't what happens. I've also had it only once for an uncle's wedding and didn't think much about it; it certainly wasn't worth the money we paid for it. Despite that fact and myself being so westernized and so distant from my personal heritage, I can't help myself from instinctively jumping off the bench to defend this practice in an animal-like reaction.

I did some more thought about my reactions and realize that what I really hate about this personally is the fact that some British (foreigner) guy ran half way across the world trying to convince everyone that this part of their culture is morally wrong. And a criticism of your culture no matter how distance slowly starts to seem like a criticism of you no matter how much you were or were not part of that culture.

I personally think it's ESPECIALLY annoying when those cultures and forces that are attempting to change laws in a totally different nation to theirs are eating Foie Gras and Sturgeon Caviar.

Now I'm not saying that Shark Fin should be legal everywhere, and if they decided to ban Shark Fin in the USA I personally don't care. It's the USA, and USA is a melting pot, you are either part of their culture and embrace everything that has to do with it or you don't. You come there to be an American and not a Chinese-American, I honestly wish more people could understand that. I don't think though that nations that decided to adopt these idiotic "multi-culturalism" policies get a free pass though, if you respect all cultures and their differences then you allow this long lasting and popular tradition to pass, otherwise what you are saying is "We respect all cultures equally, except for some of it." What a facade...

I know a lot of you are born western and think the fact of defending Shark Fin is revolting, and that's perfectly in your right. What the source of my outrage is that I am extremely pissed off at people who "respect other cultures" and go ahead and lobby legislation for restrictions in a totally different country to theirs. if you need a point of relation, this is like the world community wanting to ban guns in the US because it's not aligned with THEIR culture.

Still good or bad, I am wondering what the views are from a generally pro-freedom community is on my stance and this issue.

Thanks

In a logical sense, the ban on sharkfin is OK by me. The practice of harvesting the fins really does destroy the shark population. Gordon Ramsay notwithstanding.

You actually hit the nail on the head about another point. Trying to change the culture of any culture other than your own is wrong and that's possibly why you see so much antipathy for the Muslim world by average Americans. Just remember one thing in your anger; Gordon Ramsey is a flaming ahole and should be punched in the mouth on an hourly basis.

Yogimus wrote:In a logical sense, the ban on sharkfin is OK by me. The practice of harvesting the fins really does destroy the shark population. Gordon Ramsay notwithstanding.

Pretty much this. There's already a growing problem with massive jellyfish swarms simply because the sharks that would've kept them in check are gone.

If you catch sharks, which I personally love to do, and decide to keep what is within your legal limits, that's fine with me. If in the course of cleaning those legally caught sharks you also harvest and use the fins, this also is fine.

The standard shark finning practice is disgusting, repugnent, disrespectful, wasteful, and I liken it to sport hunting on a massive scale. I f#$%^&* hate sport hunting. I'm not criticizing the culture. I'm criticizing the practice. Is the practice morally wrong? Hell yes it is. At least, how I was brought up it is and I think any ethical hunter would agree. If that culture can't seperate the practice from themselves and any critism of the practice becomes a criticism of the culture, then they need to brace for some culture bashing.

While I consider myself pretty far from some tree hugging, bunny loving, greenie weenie, I do practice ethical hunting and fishing. Hell, I won't even split up a pair of ducks unless I'm reasonably sure I can get both of them. Your example about Foie Gras doesn't stand up. Yes, the force feeding is controversial, but the liver isn't cut out of the goose while still alive and then the rest of the goose chucked into the ocean to drown. Also, alternative methods of Foie Gras production (outside of France anyway) are becoming more popular. I'm unaware of any ethical method of finning other than finning your own catch you were keeping anyway. Sturgeon caviar suppliers are likewise coming up with more humane and acceptable methods of production other than stunning and extraction of ovaries that keep the fish alive instead of cutting off all it's fins and chucking it back in the river to slowly drown.

You also mention

I don't think though that nations that decided to adopt these idiotic "multi-culturalism" policies get a free pass though, if you respect all cultures and their differences then you allow this long lasting and popular tradition to pass, otherwise what you are saying is "We respect all cultures equally, except for some of it." What a facade...

I don't respect all cultures. That would be insane. My culture especially (White, male, South Louisiana, mix of Acadian and others) is insulted relentessly. Just turn on the History Channel. We're there (Thank God Little Honey Boo Boo is from GA). But, if we cut the feet off an alligator, you can be damned sure we use the rest of it too. You also seem to be damning Multi-Culturalism on one hand and demanding it on the other.

BTW, Gordon Ramsey would have a potato peeler hanging out of his neck if I was in that kitchen. Arrogant ass.

F*&%$#@ finning.

Steamforger wrote:
You also mention

I don't think though that nations that decided to adopt these idiotic "multi-culturalism" policies get a free pass though, if you respect all cultures and their differences then you allow this long lasting and popular tradition to pass, otherwise what you are saying is "We respect all cultures equally, except for some of it." What a facade...

I don't respect all cultures. That would be insane. My culture especially (White, male, South Louisiana, mix of Acadian and others) is insulted relentessly. Just turn on the History Channel. We're there (Thank God Little Honey Boo Boo is from GA). But, if we cut the feet off an alligator, you can be damned sure we use the rest of it too. You also seem to be damning Multi-Culturalism on one hand and demanding it on the other.

I don't like Multi-culturalism, and I don't value all cultures equally. That's why I don't mind melting pots like the USA banning shark fins for their reasons. But since multi-culturalism is a thing in Canada, they declare the respect all cultures equally. If we're expected to respect the customs and traditions of other cultures such as Muslim traditions, French Traditions, and other cultures traditions, I expect our culture and traditions to be respected as well.

If the government is going to give it, give me one or the other, the government can't have both.

I don't care if other cultures have an opinion of our customs and practices. But it pisses the utter hell out of me when they start lobbying for laws in other countries to impose their cultural standards of which they have no relation to.

I don't lobby for laws against the French tradition of Ortolan Bunting, or the slow steaming of a live octopus on the dinner table in Korea.

What may have been merely questionable practice years ago is now rendered obsolete simply by the sheer numbers of an exploding population.

A) Destroying shark populations, or any other apex predator population, is very detrimental.

B) For the first time in history, China has a wealthy enough population to pay for a significant level of shark destruction.

C) Screw other cultures. Quite a few should be destroyed/disrespected. No human being should have to grow up a Muslim, or be raised by a Russian Oligarch, or in the ghetto culture of the US, or Europe, or as lower-class Mexican.

Those are all cultures which should be destroyed - all are founded on enslavement, or just total amorality, in the case of the Russian Oligarchs.

Yogimus wrote:In a logical sense, the ban on sharkfin is OK by me. The practice of harvesting the fins really does destroy the shark population. Gordon Ramsay notwithstanding.

Roger that.

I too have NO PROBLEM with a "shark-fin ban", as long as that's the contents and specific goals of the ban. We ALL know about "mission creep" and other issues related to large organizations.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with those who want to eliminate and/or BAN the killing of sharks SOLELY FOR THEIR FINS, which, to me, is reprehensible (being a certified Open Water SCUBA diver). They should have PLENTY of sharks to fill their soup bowls from all the sharks killed in the nets of the various fishery's nets, even though they might not be from a SPECIFIC type of shark. Now if that's the case, perhaps they should use the time-honored method of SPEAR FISHING for specific types of sharks. This way they could be ensured of the shark's type and/or species.

But they'd much rather kill everything within their search just to find a few sharks of the type they're looking for.

BASTARDS!!

I don't lobby for laws against the French tradition of Ortolan Bunting, or the slow steaming of a live octopus on the dinner table in Korea.

You're comparing apples to oranges and then declaring them both to be a pineapple. In both cases you mention, the animal is consumed. No one removed a tiny portion of the animals mass and ditched the rest alive, but dying. Neither of the mentioned animals are apex predators. Yes, we eat animals. Yes, they are killed either before or during. You're taking the position that eating a small bird who was drowned and roasted is the same as taking the fins of a rather large fish, kicking the body back into the ocean to drown to be completely discarded with no thought or care about the big picture or the immediate effects. All of this is simply for the status symbol of ordering a meh dish in a restaurant that a patron pays an outlandish, ridiculous price for and can't be bothered to think about the big picture. I don't think anybody is particularly angry with the idea of the soup alone. I know I find the manner in which the fins are taken to be particularly offensive regarding the limitless harvesting and the dumping/wasting of the carcass.