KILTS AND TARTANS, LADDIES!!!

[SoupOrMan]

Having no clue where the Irish or Scottish part of my family came from on my maternal grandmother's side, and with my maternal grandfather (a Polish/Ukranian mix) only being fostered by a Kirby, with my paternal grandmother being of German and Dutch heritage and my paternal grandfather being of German and English extraction, I can only say this:

Have the English figured out family tweeds yet? I need a good hunting coat to go with my leiderhosen.

Well, properly, lederhosen are only really worn by Bavarians and other Alp-dwelling German speakers.

Most of my Germanic ancestors were Prussians...anyone know where I can find a Pickelhaube?

I'm pretty sure my German heritage is a rich melange of High and Low German.

[Netpackrat]

I may buy some plaid just to piss Greg off.

Nah, you still don't get it. It wouldn't annoy me, it would just convince me you were some variety of fool.

And THAT (someone self-identifying as a fool) troubles me not at all, for much the same reasons that it doesn't trouble me to be told that water is wet, or the sun rises in the east.

For wearing a plaid shirt? Maybe not the most fashionable choice anymore, but you really need to take a step back and look at what you are saying, because you sound ridiculous. You were really onto something when you mentioned starting your own sept. I think as chieftain of the O'Tools, it would be appropriate to refer to you as "the" O'Tool. But since you are opposed to anything that even hints at embracing a clan heritage, you should do as many Americans of Irish ancestry have done, and just drop the "O" entirely.

[Langenator]

Having no clue where the Irish or Scottish part of my family came from on my maternal grandmother's side, and with my maternal grandfather (a Polish/Ukranian mix) only being fostered by a Kirby, with my paternal grandmother being of German and Dutch heritage and my paternal grandfather being of German and English extraction, I can only say this:

Have the English figured out family tweeds yet? I need a good hunting coat to go with my leiderhosen.

Well, properly, lederhosen are only really worn by Bavarians and other Alp-dwelling German speakers.

Most of my Germanic ancestors were Prussians...anyone know where I can find a Pickelhaube?

I'm pretty sure my German heritage is a rich melange of High and Low German.

Well, my draft-dodging illegal alien (he was ship's crew, got off the ship in NYC and didn't get back on because he didn't want to be in the Kaiser's army) great-grandfather was from Hamburg, so I've got that, too.

[Aglifter]

Just as an FYI, should that "kilt vent" photo be seen by the "wrong" crowd - like the one I ran around with - there would be a wide assortment of photos along those lines...

It would have been awesome had I seen it "a few" years back...

[Greg]

I may buy some plaid just to piss Greg off.

Nah, you still don't get it. It wouldn't annoy me, it would just convince me you were some variety of fool.

And THAT (someone self-identifying as a fool) troubles me not at all, for much the same reasons that it doesn't trouble me to be told that water is wet, or the sun rises in the east.

For wearing a plaid shirt? Maybe not the most fashionable choice anymore, but you really need to take a step back and look at what you are saying, because you sound ridiculous. You were really onto something when you mentioned starting your own sept. I think as chieftain of the O'Tools, it would be appropriate to refer to you as "the" O'Tool. But since you are opposed to anything that even hints at embracing a clan heritage, you should do as many Americans of Irish ancestry have done, and just drop the "O" entirely.

So you'd be in the 'poseur' category, check. I wouldn't have had you pegged as the hipster type. Anyway I'm sure it'll look lovely with your Lenin lapel pin.

I actually once had to explain to someone (of Russian ancestry no less!) why wearing a Lenin lapel pin was not merely clever and ironic, how (knowing this person's family history) they were probably wearing the image of the person responsible for murdering their grandparents or great-grandparents. (Yes she was hot, and she was also very smart. Unfortunately she was also a proto-hipster.)

Symbolic actions are symbolic. They mean things, whether you are ignorant of them or not, or just choose to ignore them.

[Aglifter]

I think Greg might have a point. The NAZIs used almost every symbol of authority and power in Western culture - many of which may not have been conciously known to the people influenced by them.

When you wear the image of any mortal man, you are embracing the idea of being in thrall to a mortal being, and, as such, enslaving yourself, to an extent.

Now, if you want to live up to Washington or Lee's example, you might find a shortcut to a path of right action, but you will still be abandoning some of your self-determination.

[Greg]

Symbolic actions are symbolic. They mean things, whether you are ignorant of them or not, or just choose to ignore them.

Ehh... yes and no. Semiotics are about intent to communicate.

If I'm following your point...

There's still a lot of established culture and tradition that you'd have to kill off (passage of time has done a lot but the job isn't quite complete) before the particular symbolic act we're talking about can be safely repurposed.

[Netpackrat]

Symbolic actions are symbolic. They mean things, whether you are ignorant of them or not, or just choose to ignore them.

I think you need to get a life. Seriously, when was the last time you posted a range report or anything about what you shoot? I went back through the last 10 pages worth of active topics (maybe you aren't the only one who needs to get a life), and of the threads you have started, exactly zero of them related directly to the subject of firearms. I would have expected to see at least something about your shooting interests, from somebody who posts to a gun forum as much as you do.

For crying out loud, we have people here who own milsurp guns which were formerly in the service of some of the most brutal regimes in human history, specifically because they had ancestors from there, and they wanted a piece of their heritage. But nobody is accusing them of embracing Naziism, Bolshevism, or what have you, even though they own one of THE most potent symbols of their tyranny of choice, which may even have been directly involved in the commission of crimes against humanity.

We even make jokes about them and their histories, a lot. If the symbolism always matters even if it has no meaning to the person displaying the symbol, we must all be a bunch of callous sons of bitches.

Or maybe, it's just a fucking shirt....

[Aesop]

Abuse by a plaid-wearing lumberjack?
Evil Scottish pre-school teacher?
Lucky Charms OD?
I'm baffled, but it defies rational explanation.

At some point Greg, maybe consider that the southie ethnic equivalent of soccer hooligans don't adequately describe an entire phenomenon nor nationality, in case the examples of Oscar Wilde and James Joyce weren't enough to make that point.

Charles Manson is scary too, but he isn't every man with beard and long hair.

Even Freud conceeded that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Netpackrat]

It was fun, and amusing for a while, now it's not.

I dunno about you, but the fact that he appears to be actually serious is the only thing that really made it amusing for me.