Alt-history writing project

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Captain Wheelgun
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Re: Alt-history writing project

Post by Captain Wheelgun »

Thanks, Randy.

So an IR guided bomb, something like a fire and forget Fritz X, would be OK? The early versions could be unpowered, with rockets coming in later?

I’m not sure about doing a SAM, since the Germans and Italians usually attacked during the day. Didn’t the early IR tracking missiles have a problem with locking onto the Sun instead of the target?
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randy
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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Yeah, I think an IR guided air to surface weapon would work. And you could add in the other side developing counter measures to complicate the plot later (flares, decoys, IR jammers...)

I think you are correct about the Sun being an issue with early IR seekers. Of course in this timeline , the Texans are a bit ahead of the curve due to their work on IR close range comms.

In our timeline's Battle of Britain, after taking heavy losses during daylight bombing raids, the Luftwaffe switched to mostly (if not exclusively) night bombing during the Blitz. The Italians were a non-player over Britain after September 1940, and mostly just provided more targets for the RAF during the Battle of Britain.

So I'm thinking IR SAMS for night defense might be a workable option. (and again you could work the race of counter measures vs improvement in the seekers into the plot)

Maybe in this timeline the Texans pay more attention to Robert Goddard's work than than the US did? IIRC a lot of Goddard's work was done in New Mexico, which, conveniently enough, is within the territory of the Republic of Texas in your timeline if I read the map correctly.

A liquid fueled IR guided SAM would be a bit of a kludge, but might appeal to the Brits looking for anything to mitigate the pounding their cities are taking during the Blitz. I kinda like the steam punk feel.

And I think the concept would catch the Texan's attention, if nothing else when they What-if they had something like that at Galveston during the French night time WMD attack.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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The other aspect…. I’m not sure a populace of “Old Texas” wouldn’t go full blown genocidal over an attack like you described.

At the least, I think it would be about the extermination of the leadership, and their supporters.
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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Been spending WAY too much time thinking about this :D

I realize the SAMs might be a bridge too far, and don't know if it would actually add anything to your plot line, but I was thinking (Uh Oh)

Using Goddard's work, TX develops a liquid fueled rocket body large enough to loft IR seeking glide bombs developed for use against surface targets ahead of and above the altitude of a bomber stream. Bombs lock on IR sources and dive through formation, with a proximity or altitude sensor secondary fuse if they don't score an actual hit. So, in effect, if they don't score a direct hit, they become very large flak bursts.

Actually not too unlike an unmanned ME-163 attack.

The other thing I thought of, but not sure if practical or realistic, as I only worked with FAE weapons against surface targets, but if you could loft a TX FAE weapon to detonate in the middle of a bomber formation...
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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BDK wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:41 pm The other aspect…. I’m not sure a populace of “Old Texas” wouldn’t go full blown genocidal over an attack like you described.

At the least, I think it would be about the extermination of the leadership, and their supporters.
Oh yeah, going after the leaders is still on the table, especially if they weasel out of the post-war war-crimes trials. Picture the Israeli Nazi-hunters teamed with the Texas Rangers (not the baseball team :twisted: )
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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randy wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:21 pm Been spending WAY too much time thinking about this :D

I realize the SAMs might be a bridge too far, and don't know if it would actually add anything to your plot line, but I was thinking (Uh Oh)

Using Goddard's work, TX develops a liquid fueled rocket body large enough to loft IR seeking glide bombs developed for use against surface targets ahead of and above the altitude of a bomber stream. Bombs lock on IR sources and dive through formation, with a proximity or altitude sensor secondary fuse if they don't score an actual hit. So, in effect, if they don't score a direct hit, they become very large flak bursts.

Actually not too unlike an unmanned ME-163 attack.

The other thing I thought of, but not sure if practical or realistic, as I only worked with FAE weapons against surface targets, but if you could loft a TX FAE weapon to detonate in the middle of a bomber formation...
I’ve also been thinking about how to use the thermobaric bombs for anti-air work. Since they already have a crude proximity fuse, your idea could work. The only concern I have is if the fuel dispersion would work right when detonated on a moving rocket. I figure that if the dispersion works, then the rocket exhaust should ignite the fuel-air mixture.

Yeah, the Texans are very aware of Goddard’s work. In fact, in LS,T & S his 1914 paper on using gasoline and nitrous oxide for a liquid-fuel rocket was cited as the inspiration for using nitrous in their torpedos.

Speaking of those torpedos, it occurs to me (and will occur to someone in story :twisted: that the Model 1933 & 1935 N2O enhanced torpedos are about 75% of the way to a rocket already, since they burn kerosene and N2O, then use the resultant hot gas to drive the props. Replace the engine and props with a rocket combustion chamber and nozzle, tweak the guidance gyros, and there you go. I figure rocket development started about the same time work on those torpedos did.

This can also give them a head start on the post-war space race. I saw a paper about using propane or other hydrocarbons with N2O in rockets. Apparently the experimenters found that propane/N2O would potentially have a vacuum Isp of about 300 seconds. Not as good as LOx/LH2, but not shabby. Kerosene/N2O should be very similar, and would have the advantages of being non-cryogenic, easily storable, and relatively non-toxic (unlike stuff like UDMH/N2O4, etc).

And if France develops nukes like they do in OTL, you KNOW the Texans will. Could have interesting effects on the Cold War. :twisted:
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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Maybe loft the FAE bomb above the bomber formation, and have it deploy a parachute (or fins like a SNAKE EYE bomb) to slow it down enough for good dispersion? Standard detonation fuse, not using rocket exhaust in that case.

If you could get it to work, a FAE explosion in the middle of a night bomber formation should have some spectacular effects: Even those aircraft outside the area of total destruction are going to be shaken up (and might push any already suffering battle damage over the edge), and for sure the night vision of the crews is going to be massively degraded.

You would have to adjust the size/expected yield to account for lower air pressure and therefore less blast propagation at high altitudes, or have to live with a point of diminishing returns as the bombers come in at higher altitudes.

Of course at higher altitudes, their engine heat will be more prominent, and easier targets for the IR seeking bombs. For that matter, modifying one of the TX dirigibles to fly above the bomber streams and drop IR bombs on them. Just have to keep them protected from Luftwaffe night fighters escorting the bombers.

I'll shut up now.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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randy wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:32 pm Maybe loft the FAE bomb above the bomber formation, and have it deploy a parachute (or fins like a SNAKE EYE bomb) to slow it down enough for good dispersion? Standard detonation fuse, not using rocket exhaust in that case.

If you could get it to work, a FAE explosion in the middle of a night bomber formation should have some spectacular effects: Even those aircraft outside the area of total destruction are going to be shaken up (and might push any already suffering battle damage over the edge), and for sure the night vision of the crews is going to be massively degraded.

You would have to adjust the size/expected yield to account for lower air pressure and therefore less blast propagation at high altitudes, or have to live with a point of diminishing returns as the bombers come in at higher altitudes.

Of course at higher altitudes, their engine heat will be more prominent, and easier targets for the IR seeking bombs. For that matter, modifying one of the TX dirigibles to fly above the bomber streams and drop IR bombs on them. Just have to keep them protected from Luftwaffe night fighters escorting the bombers.

I'll shut up now.
Yeah, a top attack like that could work, especially if the rocket is fired just after the bomber formation passes, so the IR sensors get the best aspect on the engine heat.

I was figuring that the high altitude would potentially cause problems for FAE bombs, and they would need adjustments to work right.

I probably won’t use all of these suggestions, but, there will definitely be some of them in books 3 or 4. I want to take technology down a different road, but I don’t want to turn this into ‘Texas wins WW2 single-handed by out-Germaning the Germans’.
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BDK
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Re: Alt-history writing project

Post by BDK »

Hmm…. The “our Germans are better than their Germans” could be interesting if Texas kidnaps some of them to keep them from France, before anyone else has a chance.

Texas is going to be fairly limited in mechanical capacity and experience, I think - I’m not sure when we started building the world’s oilfields and equipment, but A) it was much less sophisticated and B) I think much of the oil industry was in PA still around WWII

At high enough altitude, what would happen if something sprayed a mist of hydrocarbons? I’m thinking some kind of simple crop duster drone launched off a high altitude airship?

Or, ground launched. Hell, after Galveston it might be “fly it up, and parachute out”, if it couldn’t land for some reason.

Old diesel started to gel at… 40?
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Re: Alt-history writing project

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Snippet deleted. See post for December 20, 2023 for details.
Last edited by Captain Wheelgun on Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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