Solar underperforms

[Vonz90]

https://www.americanexperiment.org/inst ... -expected/

Financially though, they make a lot of sense for utilities. They are limited to a fixed return rate on investments, so by being 'forced' to install lots of solar, they can boost their total returns even if it means just cranking up prices on existing energy generation. It is a huge win for them and the solar contractors, only the consumer looses. Of course they get to hear pretty stories about saving the planet so there is that.

[randy]

As I understand it much of the materials and manufacturing of solar components is in the PRC.

I wonder how much of the decline in efficiency is due to standard PRC manufacturing practices?

[HTRN]

I wonder how much of the decline in efficiency is due to standard PRC manufacturing practices?

There are quite a few brands that are at least partially made in the US - LG springs to mind. Panasonic is making cells at Tesla's gigafactory in Buffalo NY..

[BDK]

It’s useful, in certain areas. (I noticed that study was in MN, which doesn’t seem like a great place for solar)

In AZ/TX, peak demand and peak solar generation coincide.

Our local Co-Op is pushing solar, by buying back the power at a pretty fair rate, to try to distribute demand.

[HTRN]

To me, solar is a way to get emergency power, with a big upfront cost, and a longish payback period.

A grid tie setup, large enough to handle total power draw, combined with Edison batteries and a decent sized propane generator with 3 or 4 1000 gallon propane tanks strikes me as the ultimate power outage solution.

[Langenator]

In AZ/TX, peak demand and peak solar generation coincide.

Usually. The big February Texas freeze, peak demand (and overload) hit between 1-2 am.

Although solar isn't really a big enough component of the mix for that to be a real big component of the problem.

[Vonz90]

As I understand it much of the materials and manufacturing of solar components is in the PRC.

I wonder how much of the decline in efficiency is due to standard PRC manufacturing practices?

The efficiency is not the problem, at least not much of it. It is the variability and the lack of scheduling.

It has its uses, don't get me wrong I am not against the technology. It is the mandates and subsidies I am against.

[blackeagle603]

Math has worked out for us in San Dog with a grid-tied system. Even if panels are degrading faster than projected it seems to work. If/when we ever replace panels the major expense of the mounts and wiring are behind us. Panel costs have dropped considerably in the years since our install. Replacement panels with higher wattage in same form factor will go in at pennies on the dollars compared to the original.

Storage costs are dropping and starts to make sense for more and more apps (like for unreliable grid situations).

[Vonz90]

Math has worked out for us in San Dog with a grid-tied system. Even if panels are degrading faster than projected it seems to work. If/when we ever replace panels the major expense of the mounts and wiring are behind us. Panel costs have dropped considerably in the years since our install. Replacement panels with higher wattage in same form factor will go in at pennies on the dollars compared to the original.

Storage costs are dropping and starts to make sense for more and more apps (like for unreliable grid situations).

Yes, and you are using them at point of use to either gi into storage or take up specific loads or as a supplement. That is a good use fir solar. So if it is a cloudy day (or couple of hours) no biggie becauseyou get more from the grid.

If one is trying to power the grid off of solar, and the same clouds happen, one has to bring on marginal capacity from somewhere, which is typically a bunch of diesel generators, which is about the least efficientway to do it. Any wind /:solar has to have the same generator capacity available in some other reliable form that will actually end up taking more load over time (60-80%) than the wind/solar. That is why increasing wind/solar capacity for a utility usually results in higher net CO2 emissions (and cost, although wind/solar is not competitive on cost at a utility level even ignoring the back up generation.)

[HTRN]

If one is trying to power the grid off of solar, and the same clouds happen, one has to bring on marginal capacity from somewhere, which is typically a bunch of diesel generators, which is about the least efficient way to do it.

Peaker plants. We probably have a dozen or more of them around the city locally, and they're all fueled by natural gas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking ... lectricity.