a question about Christianity / forgiveness

[blackeagle603]

Make him a sin eater sort of self sacrificing character? Accepts that he's sinning and then allow the debate and uncertainty about the cost to him in eternity -- but regardless of what comes to him he's willing to eat it by carrying out this act to save millions?

To easy?

[MiddleAgedKen]

Make him a sin eater sort of self sacrificing character? Accepts that he's sinning and then allow the debate and uncertainty about the cost to him in eternity -- but regardless of what comes to him he's willing to eat it by carrying out this act to save millions?

There was a self-published novel from around 1990 called The Winnowing. I had a copy for a while because the author was at a signing at like a B. Dalton or some book store like that at the local mall (man, this is going to be The Comment That Time Forgot, bear with me). I remember the author was an MD from near Cleveland, and part of the book was set there. Medical detail was not bad, characterization was OK (characters weren't cardboard but weren't particularly compelling either), pacing was slow.

Anyway, premise was that some kind of super-strain of dire AIDS got loose in sub-Saharan Africa. The response from the rest of the world was to quarantine the continent while the race to develop a treatment (at Cleveland Clinic among other places) proceeded. Don't remember all the details, but I think the US President delayed delivery of the effective treatment so that the continent would be effectively (whatever that meant in context) depopulated. The President disclosed his decision to stall in his suicide note at the end of the novel.

Can't find a thing about it online. Obviously not the same thing we're discussing here, but blackeagle's comment put me in mind of it.

[Precision]

Make him a sin eater sort of self sacrificing character? Accepts that he's sinning and then allow the debate and uncertainty about the cost to him in eternity -- but regardless of what comes to him he's willing to eat it by carrying out this act to save millions?

To easy?

Not opposed to that. Just curious as to if anyone's version of Christianity (other than westboro baptist and the like) allowed for such things or had even commented on it.
I mean the Catholics of several hundred years ago thought the Crusades were a GREAT IDEA and fully sanctioned by God. But they also thought the Children's Crusades were a good idea, so... Sigh.

[Vonz90]

Make him a sin eater sort of self sacrificing character? Accepts that he's sinning and then allow the debate and uncertainty about the cost to him in eternity -- but regardless of what comes to him he's willing to eat it by carrying out this act to save millions?

To easy?

Not opposed to that. Just curious as to if anyone's version of Christianity (other than westboro baptist and the like) allowed for such things or had even commented on it.
I mean the Catholics of several hundred years ago thought the Crusades were a GREAT IDEA and fully sanctioned by God. But they also thought the Children's Crusades were a good idea, so... Sigh.

The Children's Crusade was a bottoms up thing. The church opposed it actually.

The main churches all have some form of just war theology, so that is not a problem per se. I do not know of any that would sanction war crime type activity though. Of course, that does not preclude any individual from winging it, sinners do that and that is all of us.

[HTRN]

Anyway, premise was that some kind of super-strain of dire AIDS got loose in sub-Saharan Africa.

That already exists the common strain in NA and Europe is not the same to the ones common in Africa.

Also, Aids is a terrible idea for a pandemic due to transmission vectors. Frankly, the flu makes more sense, from a believability standpoint, but if you need something scary to quarantine Africa with, a mutation of either ebola, or one of the other hemorrhagic fevers to have a nice long contageous incubation period would likely do.

[BDK]

Most Christians would not accept that attack as justified.

Christianity is repeat with examples of forgiving, and converting, persecutors.

Pray about it. You’re old enough to distinguish between thoughts derived of temptation and those of the Spirit.

I can SEE the temptation, hell, W is a far better man than I for not exterminating most of the ME with nukes, after 9/11.

But a man who does such a thing, would imperil his soul. None are irredeemable, but having to face the pain, and misery, we cause in life, is a brutal thing.

I think a man would struggle to stay sane, and face that.

[BDK]

So, just a bit about bioweapons...

The Idiot almost killed all of us with his stupid response to Ebola. We really came close to a systems failure.

The usual hope for a bio weapon was that 90% of your side lived, and the enemy died.

Given the modern economy, it’s pretty much, 90% live through the strike, the world burns, and, hopefully, your side has the means to rebuild the ashes and not lose more than a century. (Really, might be able to get back to the 1930s fairly quickly.)

[BDK]

Take out 20-50 million of the US, even our lowest value to lose (senior citizens) and you’d still cause a massive economic disruption. (Death tax alone would cause all kinds of hell, along with insurance companies going under, etc)

Second lowest group to lose, indigent children, and it’d still be a massive economic loss, and frankly something which could cause all manner of irrational behavior.

That many of the US’ prime earners, no matter their status, and the world’s economy fails.

Part of the issue would be that randomly taking out 2-4 million Muslims in some kind of nuclear attack, would have, relatively, little effect.

They simply don’t have producers, really.

Now, nuking their oil supplies, so that would be valueless...

[BDK]

If that can be done... not sure that the physics works out

[D5CAV]

Forgiveness predates Christianity: http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.24.xxiv.html

In the Iliad, Achilles is driven to rage when Hector kills Patroclus, so he not only kills Hector, but drags his body around Troy. He is still seething with rage days later when Priam, Hector's father, to the amazement of the Greeks and Achilles, goes to the Greek camp, enters Achilles tent and begs Achilles for the body of his son.

As when some cruel spite has befallen a man that he should have killed some one in his own country, and must fly to a great man's protection in a land of strangers, and all marvel who see him, even so did Achilles marvel as he beheld Priam. The others looked one to another and marvelled also, but Priam besought Achilles saying, "Think of your father, O Achilles like unto the gods, who is such even as I am, on the sad threshold of old age. It may be that those who dwell near him harass him, and there is none to keep war and ruin from him. Yet when he hears of you being still alive, he is glad, and his days are full of hope that he shall see his dear son come home to him from Troy; but I, wretched man that I am, had the bravest in all Troy for my sons, and there is not one of them left. I had fifty sons when the Achaeans came here; nineteen of them were from a single womb, and the others were borne to me by the women of my household. The greater part of them has fierce Mars laid low, and Hector, him who was alone left, him who was the guardian of the city and ourselves, him have you lately slain; therefore I am now come to the ships of the Achaeans to ransom his body from you with a great ransom. Fear, O Achilles, the wrath of heaven; think on your own father and have compassion upon me, who am the more pitiable, for I have steeled myself as no man yet has ever steeled himself before me, and have raised to my lips the hand of him who slew my son."

It is only when Priam forgives for the killing of Hector and Achilles forgives for the killing of Patroclus that Achilles can have peace.

Thus, then, did they celebrate the funeral of Hector tamer of horses.