The Gun Counter

Gents,

308Mike raised this on another topic, I think it deserves its own thread - he may literally have changed my life. At first I was basically ashamed to talk about this, but that's just stupid. I passed along this info to another guy and it may have changed his life as well.

As he said, he called me a while back and suggested I ask my Doc to test my testosterone level, as he had information that long-term use of pain meds could cause it to be low, and this could cause other problems.

When I started researching this, I knew immediately that mine was going to come in low. The list of symptoms:

* depression - antidepressants really didn't help
* fatigue - sleep all the time but never feel rested.
* weakness - can't do much without needing to rest.
* lack of sex-drive - totally abnormal for me...
* loss of muscle mass - or in my case working for 8+ months trying to build muscles but they won't really respond...
* elevated triglycerides - mine were off the chart-so high they couldn't read my cholesterol
* increased pain/lowered tolerance to pain - I've been taking more and more with no improvement in pain
* etc...

I could go on, but here's the point: I have been struggling for a long time, seeming to get worse and worse. I honestly believe the only reason I am still here is that I would never harm my kids by harming myself - I have been in some very dark places.

When I got the test, I was not at all surprised. - on a scale where 250-1100 is normal, mine was 54. My Doctor didn't believe the result - he said he'd never seen anyone's so low - so he insisted I be re-tested. The second test was different, much more accurate. It's "normal" range is 450-1800, mine came back 176.

Even some of the other symptoms I'd not realized - hot flashes I thought were caused by my pain meds. Excessive sweating... Most of the problems I've had are caused by this.

I haven't heard from the Doc yet, so haven't started treatment, but it is my understanding from others that the result of proper treatment is miraculous - guys say they feel better than they have in years. I can't wait...

I am angry that though this is a well-known problem, NONE of my doctors thought of it. I had to find out from "some guy on the internet" and request the test!! I plan to give each of them a "talking-to", and to be sure my pharmacist thinks about this as well - he may be in a better position to watch out for guys, especially if he sees an opioid patient suddenly taking meds for depression, etc.

As I mentioned, I told another guy about this. He has become increasingly disabled since a Lyme Disease diagnosis a few years ago. Chronic pain, he got weaker and more fatigued until he became totally disabled a few months ago. When he got tested his was very low as well, and his Doc thinks proper treatment may resolve most of his problems!!

The bottom line is that this is one of the most common problems men can have, is easily remedied, and is apparently not likely that your physician will think to test it. I'm sure Mike will agree with me when I say I wish I'd known before!!

HTH...

DD

That's great that you found out! Treatment is easy. Hopefully you will be back in fine shape in no time!!!

Glad to hear that you know what it is. Knowing is half the battle...

I got mine tested recently for the same kinds of symptoms (plus anxiety). I thought perhaps it was low too, although I experience libido swings rather than a loss.

Mine was ok, but they did discover that I was (badly) anemic. My levels were on the low end of what they should be for a woman. This can also have similar symptoms to what you describe.

I've been on iron supplementation since I found out, but my endoscopy discovered I had Gastritis from a H. pylori infection. Gastritis prevents iron absorption, and also the creation of serotonin, so that would explain the problems I've been having. I've been on triple therapy for just over a week now, and about 3 nights ago I started to feel a lot more like my old self. Not sure if it was the initial cause of all my other symptoms, but so far, so good.

I hope you get good results from your treatment.

Dub_James wrote:...I've been on iron supplementation since I found out...

This brings to mind another matter that deeply concerns me as to the health of the average man.

You're different - your Iron was low, and you need supplementation, but I'd still advise you to watch it carefully.

As to everyone else, I'd strongly advise you to be very careful to AVOID supplemental Iron. Women lose a bit of blood every month, and some scientists think this is the reason why they live 7 years longer than men. The fact that their rate of some diseases quickly equals that of men post-menopause seems to support this conclusion.

Some articles I read said that iron was equivalent to poison for men who had normal hemoglobin levels, and that men should avoid any supplement that contains iron, or any enhanced foods (like "Total" cereal) which contain supplemental Iron. In sum, if you're eating a decent diet and your iron is normal then you should avoid anything that might artificially raise it.

Yes, I agree it's not accepted "conventional wisdom" at this point, but it sure makes sense. A few years ago when the first doctor claimed H. Pylori was the cause of stomach ulcers they damn near tarred-and-feathered him, and figuratively DID run him out of town on a rail. Now he's seen as a prophetic voice - a pioneer in his field!

Another thing that supports this conclusion: Men who give blood monthly have much lower incidence of many diseases, including heart disease, strokes... Rates that are like pre-menopausal women. The correlation is too large to be dismissed as coincidence...

I'm not a doctor, and I wouldn't advise anyone to listen to me over their doctor, but I would certainly advise discussing with him/her and deciding if you think they're really thinking or just parotting what they were taught X-number of years ago in med school...

HTH...

DD

PS: Three days into treatment, I am already feeling a bit stronger. A couple of hours after applying the gel to my skin I get a small but noticeable amount of energy... I am hopeful that as I move forward I'll see major improvement!!

DD

DD,
Keep with it old man. You were a topic of discussion last night around the campfire at Rumpshot's Revenge III. All good stuff. Hope you can muddle through all this and join us sometime.

Check in every once in a while and let us know you are still out there.

Yes, let us know how things are progressing. It's likely a few more of us might find ourselves in your situation in the future.

DD, that reminds me, I'm eligible to give blood again.

A few questions...

What is involved in the testing?
Just blood work or do you have to pee in a cup, etc? What about fasting or other things for you to prepare, like clear bowels?

What is the treatment?
Just a dosage of pills X times a day or doctor office injections? Or both? What's the duration of treatment or is it an ongoing thing for as long as you're using opiates?

Is the testing usually covered by your medical programs?

I ask as I'm off to the Dr. on Weds. morn for a checkup and if I know about any “preps” needed before hand I can save myself a return trip and get it done then…

I’m still on meds from my surgery this spring and I’m going to have to go in again after Xmas for another operation…With my wife and kids leaving me for the summer, I was depressed, a little, over that but at least I had family and friends over to help out…Now, I’m feeling a little “blue” but nothing earth shattering and I’ve got the kids to keep me active…

I’ll tell you one thing, for which I'm really grateful, I had to have homecare to change dressings and cook and clean for me and that was a true blessing because the added responsibility of cooking and cleaning a home was removed from my worries and the fact that I was having people in the house conversing with me really helped…Three nurses and two housekeeper/cooks daily and a weekly laundry/cleaning lady...They just come, do their jobs and leave and another one comes later because of the work day--0800, 1500, 2300 for nurses and 0800 & 1300 for one cook and another came at 1900 for supper prep...Some things to be said for Provincial Medicare!

For me, it was 4 vials of blood (well, 3.5 vials, I began to run out after the 3rd!) for a full panel.

I'm covered for one physical checkup per year, so I made sure they tested for it, although they did suggest it could be the problem too, and likely would have advised checking it anyways.

When I had been on transdermal patches for a month, my doctor had my testosterone levels rechecked and it was at 163 (280 is supposed to be the bottom of the "normal" range), so it takes time to build your levels back up. My doctor didn't like the chemical burns I was getting from the patches, so he switched me to an injection every two weeks, and he'll recheck my levels again after the third injection (month and a half since starting the injections).

The simple blood test doesn't require any kind of fasting or other prep. My insurance covers it along with everything else. Unless they need to test other things, it's only a one-vial test. I'm in and out in a matter of minutes and the results are almost immediate (I get mine within a few hours).

EDIT:

Oh, and this test is NOT included in a full panel and is not a normal test performed during a physical or regular health assessment. Dub_James, I doubt you were tested unless it was specifically requested (you may have and if so, you probably could get the results by now). I've had many tests and physicals over the years, including flight physicals and DMV physicals as well as full health assessments and the ONLY time mine was tested was when I asked my doctor about it. Unless there's a reason to test it, they don't, since every test costs the insurance companies money and they're ALWAYS trying to save money.