The Gun Counter

Make sure you know that it's real security. (or when just complying with laws, how insecure it really is)

The gunsafes we are required by law to store our guns in are only expected to keep an intruder out for something like 15 minutes, given that the intruders doesn't have access to powertools. And that's supposedly quality cabinet safes, with certificate rating.
Basically, it will only stop friends and family members that respects it, or a burglar that doesn't want to spend the time on it.

The cable locks really don't need much of a quality lock, you can just cut the wire with bolt cutters. The lock is only there for show, and maybe to stop kids from using it. I think the same goes for the other "quick access safes" in the video. If it's made out of sheet metal and you can bend it open with a sturdy screwdriver, a quality lock doesn't really do much for it.

Erik wrote:The gunsafes we are required by law to store our guns in are only expected to keep an intruder out for something like 15 minutes, given that the intruders doesn't have access to powertools. And that's supposedly quality cabinet safes, with certificate rating.
Basically, it will only stop friends and family members that respects it, or a burglar that doesn't want to spend the time on it.

The cable locks really don't need much of a quality lock, you can just cut the wire with bolt cutters. The lock is only there for show, and maybe to stop kids from using it. I think the same goes for the other "quick access safes" in the video. If it's made out of sheet metal and you can bend it open with a sturdy screwdriver, a quality lock doesn't really do much for it.

There is a difference between destructive entry and non destructive entry when you're talking about breaking in and stealing stuff.

I usually don't worry so much about the destructive entry part because it's obvious when it happens, and how it happens. If you immediately come home to a ripped open gun box then you know that your gun was obviously stolen. It's the situation that if you have a secure safe in a hotel, then if you come back and find the entire safe missing you can instantly have a time frame of when you had it in the hotel room, and when it was stolen. Which allows surveillance photos to only scan through a few hours of video.

However if you come home to a locked box that you do everyday for your home defense weapon and are none the wiser then that's when it gets dangerous. Because you don't know that your stuff is stolen yet until you come back to it which maybe days, weeks, or months before you ever know that something has gone wrong. Then what if it's used in a crime and the police says its yours, and you never knew the gun was stolen? No audit trail, no evidence of penetration, then they start blaming YOU for not filing a stolen gun report. Sometimes too the owner blames himself that since there are no signs of entry that the owner must have misplaced it during cleaning, or left it at a range or something.

bubblewhip wrote:
However if you come home to a locked box that you do everyday for your home defense weapon and are none the wiser then that's when it gets dangerous. Because you don't know that your stuff is stolen yet until you come back to it which maybe days, weeks, or months before you ever know that something has gone wrong. Then what if it's used in a crime and the police says its yours, and you never knew the gun was stolen? No audit trail, no evidence of penetration, then they start blaming YOU for not filing a stolen gun report. Sometimes too the owner blames himself that since there are no signs of entry that the owner must have misplaced it during cleaning, or left it at a range or something.

I think you are worried about something that RARELY happens. If the theft isn't by a family member, then your safe will NOT be "finessed" open. Thieves want in and out as quickly as possible and the damage to the door, the safe, the carpet are just your bad luck. It does not affect them in any way.

bubblewhip wrote:There is a difference between destructive entry and non destructive entry when you're talking about breaking in and stealing stuff.

Well yeah...
Maybe it's just that I'm influenced by the laws where I live, but I don't think I'd use any of those kinds of locks for actual storage for any amount of time. A safe or lock like that is a temporary lock for me. Something you use for temporary storage when you are still around but aren't able to have actual control of it for a short period of time. Like if you're sleeping, or otherwise occupied. It's about the same safety level as a locked desk drawer, it's just a step up from hiding it out of sight.

It's like those cable locks for laptops, they'll stop someone from just walking away with it, but not much more.
I actually use zipties instead of locks on my suitcase when I travel by air. It stops anyone from opening the suitcase without me knowing about it, but it wont stop any thief that has a small pair of scissors.

I imagine that on a long enough time line, most threads are a dupe.

Gun safes have been discussed time and time again and picked apart to the point that unless someone/some company has come up with something new or innovative, we've already discussed it/picked it apart.

UNFORTUNATELY, that was one of the topics in the Wiki, which so far, hasn't been recoverable from the last website crash (let that be a lesson to you, in that you keep MULTIPLE COPIES of your backup since your personal data is likely MUCH more valuable to you than this info is to us - no matter how much we might like to recover it.

It's NOT the same as photos you can't retrieve from someone's memorial service you can no longer access after the drive crashed, etc., etc). Some of those items are irreplaceable, especially photos where no one else is present taking photos of their own. I know, I lost a bunch of digital photos I had not yet backed up and now they are gone forever. It's almost like having the printed photos and the negative burned up in a fire. It's the same effect as far as data is concerned.

HOWEVER, it's MUCH easier to back up those digital data files than it is for printed photographs, especially once the negatives are gone!! Making copies of printed photos do NOT work very well!!

WE (my wife & I) use our gun safe as a data storage safe too. After all, it's the only item we can lock and is rated for AT LEAST 30 minutes in a fire!!

Cable locks and trigger locks do NOT offer the ready availability of access to EVERYTHING in a gun safe for protection. They are INDIVIDUAL item locks and are good to keep folks out of THAT ITEM (****including YOU if you REALLY NEED IT****) - and of course, this is the crap Commiefornia requires for ALL new firearm purchases, even if you already have cable locks and a gun safe. {According to my last gun purchase} - Mike

But then again, NO ONE EVER SAID THE CALIFORNIA legislature had ANY brains what-so-ever.

There are several different ways to pronounce Polish beer. The most common way to pronounce it is “boo-er,” but some people say “buh-er” instead. Spam link removed

Buh Bye Lityar (is that how you say "loser" in Polish?)

Considering the news today that Liberty Safe gave over to the FBI the backdoor pass code to the safe of someone tangentially involved in the January 6, 2021 Capitol Riot, and they did it without hesitation; "But they had a warrant, what could we do? It wasn't like it was OUR privacy violated."
We shouldn't have Liberty safes unless somehow we have key or mechanical combination locks.
Personally I go for the Purloined Letter security, even though many security experts are experts at finding where they are hidden very easily.

I opted for other than a Liberty safe when I saw the inside of the door with front panel removed and compared to Amsec and Ft Knox sitting next to it.

Buying a Liberty safe seemed a lot like buying the original Tucker show car. Nice paint, no engine.