Fire!

Discussions about our lives, families, jobs... things may get a little personal
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g-man
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Re: Fire!

Post by g-man » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:29 pm

How long were the bottles stored on the boat when it was discovered that there was a problem, and what was the problem?

We typically go through 2-1/2 cases or so per week of camping, so with 4 cases stored in the rig, the oldest case would be ~4 months old. I keep the spares under the queen bed, so they’re basically in the best insulated spot in the trailer (other than the fridge), so I’m not too worried about those. We’re not talking about ‘deep storage’ here. Definitely interested in how fast your bottles had issues in the boat though, since part of this process is about expecting to be surprised.

The ones in the vehicles typically get used and replaced over about a 2 month cycle. With little kids constantly asking for refills for their water bottles (whether those bottles are empty or not), we can burn through them pretty quickly. The real trick is making sure to replace them when we get home. Burning through 3 last weekend, and 3 this weekend, and forgetting to swap new ones in for the empties means 6-8 spares in the back turns to zero “all of a sudden”, because we forgot. SWMBO gets the cute term ‘mommy brain’, while for me it means I’m just losing my damn mind.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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g-man
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Re: Fire!

Post by g-man » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:09 pm

Finally found a full text version of the most recent study about the PET bottlepocalypse.

Full text here.

My take-aways:

-Study considered 16 brands of water bottles in China
-Only 1 of the 16 brands exceeded recommended levels for one compound, and only after storage at 158*F for a solid month
-antimony, at 409ng/kg/d just above the 400ng/kg/d threshold, with a sd of +/-50.9ng/kg/d, which means even in the worst brand, in China, not all of the bottles exceeded the threshold
-thinner bottles leached less chemicals

So what does this mean for us?
Bottles stored in a car can hit the study temperature, but don’t sustain it 24/7. Even assuming the car is that hot a full 8 hours a day, this means that the worst bottle brand in China wouldn’t exceed safe thresholds until nearly the 3 month point. Since it is known that thinner bottles leach less, and that thinner bottles contain less plastic waste in case they don’t get recycled, it is both environmentally and physically prudent to use the ‘lighter bottles’ for in-car storage. 3 months is a safe estimate, even stored in a hot car.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Old Grafton
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Re: Fire!

Post by Old Grafton » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:05 am

And SLIGHTLY possible illness from overaged plastic-bottled water doesn't trump dehydration or really serious illness from ditch water in an emergency. I agree, rotate the inventory; but in a real emergency it's one of the lesser problems. Not arguing, just sayin'.
I'm not old--It's too early to be this late.

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g-man
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Re: Fire!

Post by g-man » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:28 am

Old Grafton wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:05 am
And SLIGHTLY possible illness from overaged plastic-bottled water doesn't trump dehydration or really serious illness from ditch water in an emergency. I agree, rotate the inventory; but in a real emergency it's one of the lesser problems. Not arguing, just sayin'.
No arguement here! Dehydration or death by Giardia will kill you NOW... Maybe cancer from maybe badly stored bottles kills you maybe sometime after the ninth of never, on a SHTF timeline.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

toad
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Re: Fire!

Post by toad » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:10 pm

I've gotten where I ignore any study that uses mice or rats , everything gives them some kind of disease , most often cancer.

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MiddleAgedKen
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Location: Flyover Country

Re: Fire!

Post by MiddleAgedKen » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:49 pm

The doses required to produce cancer in lab animals may produce cancer via acute liver damage, etc.
Watergate didn't have a body count.

Langenator
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Re: Fire!

Post by Langenator » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:12 am

toad wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:10 pm
I've gotten where I ignore any study that uses mice or rats , everything gives them some kind of disease , most often cancer.
I have yet to see proof that humans in white lab coats don't cause cancer in labratory mice.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus

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308Mike
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Re: Fire!

Post by 308Mike » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:37 am

BDK wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:33 am
Water, just in normal bottles, will not last in the heat. (Dealt w. that on a boat, before.)
At least you could run the bilge pumps and pump the water overboard - and I hope nothing got ruined in the boat like it would in a house!
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad

BDK
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Re: Fire!

Post by BDK » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:38 am

It wasn't that. It was foul. Far too unpleasant to drink. Might work in a survival mode, but the "country boy" part of me doesn't swallow water that my body doesn't want it to.

And, unless something has changed, no one ever believes Chinese research papers. Most Asian research is a solid "maybe" on whether or not they published an honest paper.

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