The Gun Safe thread

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Weetabix
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Weetabix » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:26 pm

Shared for your comments or use:

Organizing my gun security thoughts:

Security for me comprises preventing unauthorized access and loss from fire or theft.

Theft and unauthorized access overlap quite a bit. A thief would look specifically for things to steal in places he expects them. Unauthorized access could occur when looking for something else and finding a gun.

I could prevent theft by making guns difficult to find (hiding), difficult to get hold of (physical access prevention), by both, or by not owning them (sell ones I don't care about, hand down heirloom firearms earlier rather than later). I could prevent unauthorized access the same ways, but the needs would be slightly different. Hiding a gun on top of a bookshelf would prevent a child's physical access but not necessarily prevent a thief's. Some simple locks would defeat a child but not a thief. I can reduce theft by deceiving the thief with decoys.

A gun "safe" could be a cheap locker (Stack-On), an RSC, or a true safe. A true safe is cool, but at this time, I don't think anything's value justifies that. So, if anything, it's a cheap locker or an RSC.

If I bought a small true safe for the fun of dials, locks, and bolts, it will not be impregnable since I won't pay for that. That said, it might be best to keep only documents (birth certificates, titles, passports, etc.) in it along with some sacrificial cash since if at thief finds it, he'll assume there's something worth stealing in it and concentrate on it. I haven't any place great to hide one well right now.

Physical security (safes, RSC's, locks, etc.) serve to increase the time it takes a thief to access the valuables. It cannot prevent access by someone determined and prepared. One can increase access time by hardening security or by increasing the number of secure positions. So, one large RSC takes one man with hand tools (what level is his skill?) 5 minutes to break into. More RSC's multiplies the time.

I don't have a suitable location for a large RSC, so multiples may be the only solution. This aids in avoiding the inadvisability of storing everything of value in one place – all in one place means if the thief gets into that place, he gets everything.

Questions:
Do all guns need protection from fire to the same level? It would seem to be a balance of the likelihood of fire, the value of the firearm (sentimental or pecuniary), the need to access it, and the exposure to fire damage (e.g. is it in a concrete basement corner with non-combustible items, or is it on the second floor? Place valuable storage guns in fire protected safe. Cheap storage guns in lockers. Guns that need to be accessed will not be fire protected.

How can I further increase time/frustrate a thief? Secure stored bolt guns and their bolts separately. Tag each gun and bolt clearly so when I want to use them, they're easy to assemble. Keep a list of locations somewhere unobtrusive but not in either storage location.

Resolutions:
Purchase one fire-rated RSC with a listed mechanical dial because I like dials.

Place documents in the fire-rated RSC, but no other valuables. Store them elsewhere.

Distribute lockers/RSC and attempt to disguise or cover them so it's not obvious what or where they are. One locker of cheap guns is most visible as a decoy.

Leave one cheap long gun in master bedroom closet. Thieves look there first. They may take it and run without looking for other stuff. Probably put a shotgun I don't care about in there. That way, I have an accessible home defense long gun as well.

Leave one cheap handgun in bedside table drawer for same reason?

Reassess these when the grandson starts walking. (N.B. get more grandchildren)

Thieves tend to use your own tools to break into your containers. Secure sawzall, cutters, pry bare, etc. in a non-obvious location. I don't use them often, so they need not be absolutely conveniently available to me.

Bolt all containers to floors/walls.

Now, to choose the RSC.
Note to self: start reading sig lines. They're actually quite amusing. :D

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randy
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by randy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:01 pm

Don't forget to use a layered defense.

Harden your outer perimeter (doors, windows). Time spent getting into the house is less time to work on the safe(s)

Consider alarms. Lots of relatively cheap systems these days that don't require monthly monitoring fees and give you control from off-site.
Loud alarm audio and flashing lights attract attention and distract goblins from spending time opening a safe, especially if they can't be sure if the cops has been notified or not.

Cheap web cams with off site/cloud storage . Have prominent signs letting potential goblins know they are under video surveillance (even if they are not, some old, dead web cams can be just as useful as functional ones for this)

Such measures will whittle away at the potential threat population as many go looking for softer targets.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".

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Jered
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Jered » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:05 am

I have one pistol that I keep in a safety deposit box along with a collection of various identities.

Because reasons.
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HTRN
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by HTRN » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:47 am

You have terrible timing, until recently, Costco was running a sale on a big cannon safe for 800 bucks. Yeah, yeah, RSC and all, but until you get into mid four figures for something like an Amsec, they're all pretty much the same.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

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Weetabix
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Weetabix » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:17 am

Sadly, the nearest Costco is 200 miles away and I can't fit big. Maybe Greg could bring me one.

But thanks for the encouragement. ;)
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Kommander
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Kommander » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:40 am

Some of you might remember that in 2009 I had my apartment broken into. The Cabela's safe with an electronic lock did it's job and I am geussing the burglers we're not happy as they didn't get much for their trouble because of the safe. I do think that I should have gotten one with a dial instead of electronics as the burglers could have just smashed the key pad of they had been feeling spiteful. Also like everyone says get the biggest one you can afford so you don't have to leave anything out.

BDK
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by BDK » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:23 am

A) See if there are local safe makers. They are often good values

B) Used commercial safes will almost always be be better, if you find one.

C) honestly, a concrete walled room, a metal door and a good deadbolt lock set up/one of those browning Security doors

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HTRN
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by HTRN » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:22 am

Weetabix wrote:Sadly, the nearest Costco is 200 miles away and I can't fit big. Maybe Greg could bring me one.

But thanks for the encouragement. ;)
You could have ordered it through their website, and had it delivered. :roll:
BDK wrote:C) honestly, a concrete walled room, a metal door and a good deadbolt lock set up/one of those browning Security doors
There are better options than browning, either buy a used bank vault door, or buy a new amsec door - they run around 3500 dollars. If its a concrete block room, filling the blocks with mortar with used carbide inserts always struck me as an extra spiteful "fuck you" to clever burglars, along with a stainless steel inner liner.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt

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Netpackrat
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Netpackrat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:06 pm

HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

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Greg
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Re: The Gun Safe thread

Post by Greg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:37 pm

Netpackrat wrote:HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot.
He's OUR evil fucker. :lol:
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby

If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr

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