Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

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Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby skb12172 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:13 pm

The cop should still go down, as well as the prank caller. Felony Manslaughter, out of police work, never own a gun again. The Prankster should get Life in PMITA prison. Fools.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/30/ka ... s.amp.html
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:12 pm

skb12172 wrote:The cop should still go down, as well as the prank caller. Felony Manslaughter, out of police work, never own a gun again. The Prankster should get Life in PMITA prison. Fools.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/30/ka ... s.amp.html


If every PD and SWAT in the country isn't getting training on this every month, their leadership should be canned and held responsible for anything bad that happens.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Jered » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:25 pm

According to what I've read on the internetz, the Kansas State BCI doesn't tend to whitewash shootings by local police officers.

Sounds like both the cop and the caller need to go to prison over this.

The Wichita police department also needs to fire everyone who trained these cops. Responding to a potential hostage situation. Gee. Why don't we shoot the first person to come bursting out of where we think the hostage is located. What is wrong with that picture? Congratulations, Wichita PD, you've just shot a potential hostage running toward you in the vain hope of rescue. Idiots.

:roll:
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Greg » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:08 am

Jered wrote:According to what I've read on the internetz, the Kansas State BCI doesn't tend to whitewash shootings by local police officers.

Sounds like both the cop and the caller need to go to prison over this.

The Wichita police department also needs to fire everyone who trained these cops. Responding to a potential hostage situation. Gee. Why don't we shoot the first person to come bursting out of where we think the hostage is located. What is wrong with that picture? Congratulations, Wichita PD, you've just shot a potential hostage running toward you in the vain hope of rescue. Idiots.

:roll:


I pointed that out elsewhere, and was the first one to make that 'you just wasted a hostage' observation, in that discussion. So much fail.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Steamforger » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:03 am

The guys I know have shifted from high-speed dynamic entries just because of stuff like this. They prefer now to hunker down in and behind the Bearcat after a perimeters been set and pump gas.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby scipioafricanus » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:24 pm

Steamforger wrote:The guys I know have shifted from high-speed dynamic entries just because of stuff like this. They prefer now to hunker down in and behind the Bearcat after a perimeters been set and pump gas.

Hopefully they spend that time making sure they are at the right house.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Langenator » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:56 pm

Steamforger wrote:The guys I know have shifted from high-speed dynamic entries just because of stuff like this. They prefer now to hunker down in and behind the Bearcat after a perimeters been set and pump gas.


It amazed me, when I was in Afghanistan years ago (2009-2010) that the procedure there, even for a lot of the SOF units* was was we called 'Cordon and Knock'. This even applied to JPEL (Joint Prioritized Engagement List; serious bad guys who were up a ways in the hierarchy, high enough and bad enough to be targeted by name. The equivalent in stateside law enforcement would be violent felons for whom you already have an arrest warrant) targets that were the target of Capture/Kill missions.

The way the op usually went was the troops would insert and set up a cordon around the target location before first light. Once the sun came up, they'd call out, using a 'terp and loudspeakers, to get people to exit the compound. Women, kids, and old men first, then the Fighting Age Guys. Once people stopped coming out, they do their enter and clear drills. Most of the time, everyone came out peacefully, no shooting was necessary.

It mystified me that, unless there was active violence going on, that stateside cops didn't employ similar tactics.

*This applied to all units that fell under ISAF/NATO command. There were SOF units that were outside this chain, under U.S.-only command. We referred to them as 'Numbered Task Forces', and they consisted of Rangers, SEALS, and JSOC hitters, who rotated in and out on 90 day or shorter trips. (So if a guy says he went to OIF or OEF with the Rangers, he probably has the same amount of time in country as a grunt from 1st Armored Division.) They had different RoE, and would go straight to blasting an entrance and conducting a dynamic entry and assault. They also had a nasty habit of bailing if there were civilian casualties, often without telling anyone what had happened, leaving the conventional force battlespace owner to clean up the mess. One of GEN McChrystal's unsung successes was drastically reducing this sort of behavior. As a former JSOC commander, he had the respect and authority within that corner of the SOF community to make them listen to him.
Last edited by Langenator on Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:51 pm

Langenator wrote:It mystified me that, unless there was active violence going on, that stateside cops didn't employ similar tactics.


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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Johnnyreb » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:17 pm

What I want to know is if the scum who made that fake call will be charged with capital murder. People who do this need to die and others like them need to know they got the death sentence. Or it won't stop happening.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Odahi » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:20 pm

The charges for "SWATting" need to START at attempted murder. This is not a prank. TP the target's house, that is a prank. Even a burning bag of dogshit on the porch can turn ugly in a hurry. Porches can catch fire. But this crap is nothing short of a malicious attempt to get the cops to shoot or imprison someone you don't like. Fuck you, literally, in general population for about five years. To start. If there are injuries or death as a result of your little "prank?" Then we start to get SERIOUSLY vindictive on your sorry ass. I'm sometimes in favor of excessive punishment, especially in the case of the first guy to get caught in some activity. If you SLAM the first one, the rest may get the message that it is not acceptable behavior.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Netpackrat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:10 pm

Absolutely the caller needs to go down for some form of murder, but that does not in any way absolve the police for their role.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby BDK » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:56 pm

There’s precedent that successfully framing someone for a capital crime, was murder.

That a SWAT raid would result in some type of battery, would be reasonably expected - at the very least, there would be a handcuffing.

Judges/DAs will be hinky about extending murder/manslaughter to be a reasonable expectation over calling in a complaint to the cops.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Langenator » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:58 am

This runs into plenty of jurisditional issues (where does the turd who called in the threat get charged?), but I think that the legally (as opposed to morally) most appropriate charge would be on the order of negligent homicide, i.e., he purposely created a situation which he knew, or should reasonably have known, created a significant risk of death or serious bodily injury, and which did result in death.

Now, does he get charged in KS, CA, or in federal court?
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby First Shirt » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:01 am

Langenator wrote:Now, does he get charged in KS, CA, or in federal court?


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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Weetabix » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:12 am

From the link:
When officers arrived at the scene, Finch opened the door for the officers. As police told him to put his hands up, Finch moved a hand toward the area of his waistband

This doesn't sound like a SWAT raid or what I'd have guessed from reading the posts above. Sounds like bad judgment on Finch's part and a too-happy trigger finger on the cop's part, but not a no-knock, ninja, hut-hut-hut raid.

Is there more to this?
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Jered » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:08 am

BDK wrote:That a SWAT raid would result in some type of battery, would be reasonably expected - at the very least, there would be a handcuffing.


Essentially, that's deceiving the cops into unlawfully imprisoning someone.


Judges/DAs will be hinky about extending murder/manslaughter to be a reasonable expectation over calling in a complaint to the cops.


They should go on a case by case basis with that because in this case, the caller WAS NOT making a good faith effort to report a crime. He was making a bad faith effort to deceive the police into disrupting someone's life.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby 308Mike » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:19 am

BDK wrote:Judges/DAs will be hinky about extending murder/manslaughter to be a reasonable expectation over calling in a complaint to the cops.

There's no validity to that line of thought. First off, the caller KNEW he was calling in a false/fake complaint - which was more a fatal crime IN PROGRESS - which was called in as a first-person 911 call claiming to be the perp holding folks at gunpoint, and claiming to already have shot the father and threatening to pour gasoline all over everyone he had tied up (IIRC) - hence no Flash-Bangs or tear-gas grenades, they'd have to use non-exploding munitions and such (like 12-ga tear-gas rounds fired thru windows, etc.).

OBVIOUSLY quite a bit of premeditation on the caller's part. AFAIC, he committed FIRST DEGREE MURDER (even if he didn't think someone might be killed - but he had to reasonably KNOW that something serious was likely to happen.

There's NOTHING in this incident which should cause any reasonable person to believe they might be charged with a crime for calling in a VALID complaint to the police department.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Langenator » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:59 am

Apparently the turd is being charged with making a false alarm, a felony, in KS.

http://www.kbtx.com/content/news/LA-man ... 99843.html
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Langenator wrote:Apparently the turd is being charged with making a false alarm, a felony, in KS.

http://www.kbtx.com/content/news/LA-man ... 99843.html


So I would expect felony murder charges to follow.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Windy Wilson » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:17 am

We talk about suicide by cop, this was murder by cop.
The charge should be murder by proxy, however the DA wants to put it together under the existing criminal code.
They are essentially giving the cop bad info on what is beyond the door. This seems guaranteed to create a bad shoot situation, and it doesn't absolve the SWATTER to say the cop needs to be more alert.
As you all say above, this wasn't a good faith 911 call, there were lies throughout.
Prosecute these SWATTING events with the intent of the caller as the intent to commit murder that it is, and they'll go down in number drastically.

Felony Murder sounds good to me.
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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby Johnnyreb » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:03 am

I read a little while ago the scum is charged with involuntary manslaughter. And that's messed up.

So he didn't want to set him up to be killed, he was forced to do it? What was involuntary about it? Don't even call it negligent homicide since that means somebody died because you did something stupid but had no intention to kill. This guy had every intent to kill and he carried out a plan intended to achieve it. He is a 1st degree murderer.

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Re: Wichita PD Murder Unarmed Man At Fake SWAT Call

Postby BDK » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:57 pm

Half a brain of a defense attorney and he’ll plea to involuntary as fast as he can sign.


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