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Vonz90 wrote:It probably would require putting a "gun guy" who understands the market and has enough technical background to know what can and cannot be done as the head of a separate business unit that just does that.
They had one, Wayne Weber was the head of HK-USA, and they fired him.
Last edited by HTRN on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
"If you listen closely enough, your customers will explain your business to you."- Peter Schutz, retired CEO, Porsche AG
The basic problem is that the current HK management sees their business as one thing (selling large masses of parts to governments) and as far as I can tell they consider everything else a distraction. There is nothing wrong with that per se, it was actually the business model that HK started with. The problem is that it is a high risk / reward and also kisses off some very large potential markets in the consumer side of things.
For better or worse, they have one of the best known brands in the firearms industry. They just have absolutely no idea how to leverage that into anything else. This is particularly true when it comes to long arms, I guess they sell a few pistols here and there. The HK 91/93 and MP5 platforms could all be huge sellers for them here if they put them back into production, particularly with a few updates. For that matter, make more "sporting" versions of the actions and sell them worldwide (since the black rifle thing is not as big a deal in most places not named USA).
It probably would require putting a "gun guy" who understands the market and has enough technical background to know what can and cannot be done as the head of a separate business unit that just does that. This kind of work will always be an afterthought at best to the part of the business chasing government contracts. To my knowledge they have never done that, or at least done that well.
They are far from the first company to get stuck in this situation.
What I want to know is, why in the everloving hell are their long arms so EXPENSIVE? They're all stampings, they were *designed* to be cheap and easy to make, the descendants of designs produced by wartime industry and engineers who had enforced experience operating in CAVES.
ARs are much harder to make and require much more advanced techniques.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
Greg wrote:What I want to know is, why in the everloving hell are their long arms so EXPENSIVE? They're all stampings, they were *designed* to be cheap and easy to make, the descendants of designs produced by wartime industry and engineers who had enforced experience operating in CAVES.
ARs are much harder to make and require much more advanced techniques.
Production volume - Continental prpbably spits out more lowers in a week, than HK does in a year.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
Greg wrote:What I want to know is, why in the everloving hell are their long arms so EXPENSIVE? They're all stampings, they were *designed* to be cheap and easy to make, the descendants of designs produced by wartime industry and engineers who had enforced experience operating in CAVES.
ARs are much harder to make and require much more advanced techniques.
Production volume - Continental prpbably spits out more lowers in a week, than HK does in a year.
You need volume to run a stamping plant that's already paid for?
You'd think just the machining steps on an AR receiver half, upper or lower, would be more expensive than running a few stampings. Not to mention the casting, or the anodizing which is notoriously tricky.
But maybe I'm assuming too much.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
Actual HK 91 and 93 rifles have a scarcity premium.
If you look at MKE and PTR (or other) versions of the 93 and 91 respectively they are ballpark to the various AR prices.
If HK really wanted to after that market, th should not attack it on price. In the 80's they came out with a modular versions of ther rifles that took STANAG magazines. (They were strangled in the crib by the import ban.) Update those and sell them as premium products and the sell the old versions as classic models.
The other thing to remember is theyre are different goals for german large corps, than US ones, notably, that they seem to largly exist to provide comfortable well paying jobs to germans - making a profit is secondary. It comes from having the german government having their fingers in every german megacorp.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
HTRN wrote:The other thing to remember is theyre are different goals for german large corps, than US ones, notably, that they seem to largly exist to provide comfortable well paying jobs to germans - making a profit is secondary. It comes from having the german government having their fingers in every german megacorp.
It sounds like you are saying the reports of National Socialism's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati
"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
Vonz90 wrote:Price is completely different than cost.
Actual HK 91 and 93 rifles have a scarcity premium.
If you look at MKE and PTR (or other) versions of the 93 and 91 respectively they are ballpark to the various AR prices.
If HK really wanted to after that market, th should not attack it on price. In the 80's they came out with a modular versions of ther rifles that took STANAG magazines. (They were strangled in the crib by the import ban.) Update those and sell them as premium products and the sell the old versions as classic models.
HK asking so much for them reduces their potential pool of buyers. That's my whole point. The premium (hell, beyond premium into extravagant, like a Vertu phone) pricing cuts their potential sales to a trickle.
Their costs on the roller locked family of all stamping long arms ought to be quite low.
They ask less, they dramatically expand the pool of potential buyers. They could sell a *lot* of those things. They might make less per unit, but more than make up for it on volume.
The people selling clones seem to be making a better living than the original. Hint.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
HTRN wrote:The other thing to remember is theyre are different goals for german large corps, than US ones, notably, that they seem to largly exist to provide comfortable well paying jobs to germans - making a profit is secondary. It comes from having the german government having their fingers in every german megacorp.
It sounds like you are saying the reports of National Socialism's death have been greatly exaggerated.
It seems that way, doesnt it?
They also have the nasty habit of buying foreign corps, like Chrysler, squeezing every penny out of it, then dumping the corpse. In order to support jobs at home. They did it to Chrysler, Airbourne Express, and many more.
Short answer: if your employer is bought by germans, update your resume.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
Vonz90 wrote:Price is completely different than cost.
Actual HK 91 and 93 rifles have a scarcity premium.
If you look at MKE and PTR (or other) versions of the 93 and 91 respectively they are ballpark to the various AR prices.
If HK really wanted to after that market, th should not attack it on price. In the 80's they came out with a modular versions of ther rifles that took STANAG magazines. (They were strangled in the crib by the import ban.) Update those and sell them as premium products and the sell the old versions as classic models.
HK asking so much for them reduces their potential pool of buyers. That's my whole point. The premium (hell, beyond premium into extravagant, like a Vertu phone) pricing cuts their potential sales to a trickle.
Their costs on the roller locked family of all stamping long arms ought to be quite low.
They ask less, they dramatically expand the pool of potential buyers. They could sell a *lot* of those things. They might make less per unit, but more than make up for it on volume.
The people selling clones seem to be making a better living than the original. Hint.
HK has not sold roller lock long arms to non-governmental customers since the 80's. So yes the clone makers are making more by definition.
