Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

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randy
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by randy » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:34 pm

Kommander wrote:Thing is some of these guys, like Vickers and Yeager, actually have legitimate combat experience. However simply having someone try to kill you does not mean you actually know what your doing, nor does it mean that you are capable of training others.
A general commentary since I don't have detailed knowledge of the persons involved, but at one time providing instruction and training was a primary mission of Army Special Forces, especially in peace time.

The SF guys I knew in the 80's and early 90's spent a good part of their operations in "Foreign Internal Defense" missions, training local troops all over the world in everything from HSLD Commando stuff to basic field hygiene. Their participation in the Vietnam era MIKE Forces was basically an extension of that to active combat operations, but at the base was still a training mission.

I was lucky enough to attend some SF Reserve unit drills while in college, and a big emphasis of each weekend drill was the younger troops developing and presenting training classes to others in the unit, being graded on technical knowledge and presentation skills by the more senior NCOs. (It's where I got my first introduction to M-16 maintenance, donning and maintenance of gas masks, and military land navigation).

Things may have changed in the past 15+ years of active war operations, but at one time, being an SF NCO meant being at least a competent trainer/instructor.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".

TheArmsman
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by TheArmsman » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:49 pm

Netpackrat wrote:
Kommander wrote:
Ass-op wrote:IMHO, a lot of the tin-horn two-bit hooey from these BS artists could be avoided by simply asking them "Mister, how many actual stand up face-to-face gunfights you been in?"
Thing is some of these guys, like Vickers and Yeager, actually have legitimate combat experience. However simply having someone try to kill you does not mean you actually know what your doing, nor does it mean that you are capable of training others.
Suarez was apparently in some gunfights during his law enforcement career. Then narrowly avoided being felonized over apparent worker's comp fraud because he was instructing privately while he was supposed to be on the injured list. Given the strenuous nature of standing behind a firing line and telling other people how to shoot, my take was that due to his overall douchiness, he had made a lot of enemies in his former department over the years, who seized the opportunity to finally fuck him back. I did try to take classes from several of his instructors but the classes they tried to put together up here always ended up being cancelled, postponed, or what have you and his attack on a competitor who is slightly overweight due to injuries sustained in the service of his country was finally the last straw. I liked a lot of what I saw about his pistol curriculum and if my goal is to learn to fight better with my pistol, then I certainly don't expect the guy teaching me to be a saint; I'm more interested in what he can teach me that might save my life at some point. But there comes a point when enough is enough and there are other fish in the sea. Including a bunch of his ex instructors who also finally got tired of his bullshit.

As for Yeager, there is some video out there purportedly of his gunfight as a contractor in the middle east, and it doesn't seem to paint too good of a picture of him.
As for Yeager, look up Edinburgh Risk Ambush. It is the company he worked for a in Baghdad. They made a lot of mistakes, skinnies saw an opportunity, and lit them up with a pair of PKM's. I was teammates with somebody who was supposed to be on that run , who later came over to Blackwatee and my detail.
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Rod
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Rod » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:06 am

Not tooting my horn any but from what I'm reading, I have more credibility than some of the douchenozzles you're mentioning. During my tour in Viet Nam, I actually got into long range rifle fights, short range rifle fights, and nailed a guy in the mouth (by accident) with a single M-16 round from 30 feet snap shooting. I used to spend my time in the trenches on firebases picking off rats from 10 to 20 feet with a 1911. Should I start up a whiz bang, bells and whistles shooting academy?
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Kommander
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Kommander » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:26 am

Rod wrote:Not tooting my horn any but from what I'm reading, I have more credibility than some of the douchenozzles you're mentioning. During my tour in Viet Nam, I actually got into long range rifle fights, short range rifle fights, and nailed a guy in the mouth (by accident) with a single M-16 round from 30 feet snap shooting. I used to spend my time in the trenches on firebases picking off rats from 10 to 20 feet with a 1911. Should I start up a whiz bang, bells and whistles shooting academy?
Actually yea, Vickers was at least SOF but allot of these guys were just regular [strike]infantrymen[/strike] infantrypersons. Just be sure you have some angle to use to sell your experience and use lots operator terms like "powerstroke" and put the word "tactical" in front of everything.

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Denis
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Denis » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:33 am

Rod wrote:Should I start up a whiz bang, bells and whistles shooting academy?
I've had the pleasure of shooting with, and learning from, Rod. I for one think his shooting academy would be excellent!

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JustinR
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by JustinR » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:19 pm

You can call it "Rod's School of Dentistry." :lol:

No, no....TACTICAL Dentistry!
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Rod
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Rod » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:57 pm

Denis wrote:
Rod wrote:Should I start up a whiz bang, bells and whistles shooting academy?
I've had the pleasure of shooting with, and learning from, Rod. I for one think his shooting academy would be excellent!
Nah, too old and curmudgeonly but thanks for the vote of confidence. I truly like my niche, teaching new shooters gun safety, gun nomenclature, and the very basics of shooting. Without the NRA hoopla. I charge them range fees at the Rod and Gun Club and 30 bucks for ammo (and they shoot more than that during the 3 hours we're out there.
one can be a Democrat, or one can choose to be an American.
Good acting requires an imagination; reality requires a person not getting lost in their imagination.
"It's better to have a gun if you need it". Felix's opthamologist

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Combat Controller
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Combat Controller » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:25 pm

Just don't let Rod near any grenades! But I'd attend that class.

Larry sounds like he's letting it get to his head. I was part of the support element during the hostage rescue during Just Cause and I have trained with Paul Howe who was a teammate of his. Paul is the consummate trainer and a true quiet professional in my opinion. Larry just makes the community look bad carrying on like that.
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Rod
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Rod » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:08 pm

CombatController wrote:Just don't let Rod near any grenades! But I'd attend that class.
One Carl moment 48 years ago and people STILL rag me about it. Bite me, all y'all.
one can be a Democrat, or one can choose to be an American.
Good acting requires an imagination; reality requires a person not getting lost in their imagination.
"It's better to have a gun if you need it". Felix's opthamologist

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Denis
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Re: Larry Vickers is an ass...but we knew that.

Post by Denis » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:32 pm

Rod wrote:One Carl moment 48 years ago and people STILL rag me about it. Bite me, all y'all.
LOL. 8-)

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