9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

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SoupOrMan
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by SoupOrMan »

HTRN wrote:9x23 was one of several efforts made to solve some of the headaches of 38 Supers semi rimless design. If you've got a 38 super, you can probably run 9x23 in your gun without mods. The other two notable attempts to deal with the occasionally persnickty 38 Super is 38 TJ(Todd Jarrett) and 38 Super Comp. They'res also a .38 Super Lapua. They all fall under the basic category of "Rimless 38 Super", with often very minor dimensional variations. For example, going by this page, the only difference externally between Starlines Super Comp and TJ brass is the diameter of the extractor cut.

If you want to push something faster than the previously mentioned velocities, there's 9x25 Dillon - a bottlenecked 10mm(think the same relationship between 357 Sig and .40S&W). It will reportedly drive a 124 grn bullet at 1700 ft/sec. Be warned - the cartridge was originally developed to easily meet the old, higher "Major" power factor, but was quickly dropped because it had the nasty habit of eating parts, giving tendonitis, and was extremely loud in compensated guns. Add in the mag capacity lost compared 9mm diameter cartridges, and it's fall from grace is fairly easy to understand.
9x25 Dillon sounds like a fun carbine cartridge, almost as fun as the one that necks a .45 Winchester Magnum down to a .40 bullet. I forget what that one is normally called, though.
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Aglifter
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by Aglifter »

Well, there are a few thousand USPSA Open shooters who run those loads on a regular basis - the majors will certainly blow out in an unsupported chamber - but I don't know if they're really that unsafe in a gun built for them.

I shoot w. several folks who have 40K+ rounds through their open guns of those loads, the most reliable gun I own is an open gun that has ~7K of those rounds through it (by me, plus whatever the prior owner ran) - all w.o. any real problems.

I suppose the breech face can show some wear after several thousand rounds, but not much. Most of the guns should last between 60 to 100K, and that's usually the rails getting too loose. (You can have them accurailed, etc, but most folks seem to just buy another gun at that point.)

I've never heard of anyone shooting their gun out of timing, or until the lugs were battered. Recoil springs need to be replaced, of course - usually every 3 to 5K...
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blackeagle603
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by blackeagle603 »

@ Souperman: .400 Corbon is what you're thinking of.
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HTRN
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by HTRN »

Aglifter wrote:Well, there are a few thousand USPSA Open shooters who run those loads on a regular basis - the majors will certainly blow out in an unsupported chamber - but I don't know if they're really that unsafe in a gun built for them.
Out of curiousity, I checked Hodgdon's online manual. The max velocity listed for a 38 Super firing a 125grn LCN is 1379 ft/sec. using 14.0 grains of compressed Lil' gun. Pressure is listed as 30,500 CUP. (Max pressure in CUP for the Super is 33,000 CUP). Currently, you need 1320/ft sec with a 125grn bullet to make major.

That said, Lil" gun seems to be the only powder listed that gets past the 1300 ft/sec barrier among the listed data, with the second fastest being over 100 ft/sec slower, and higher pressure to boot.
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SoupOrMan
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by SoupOrMan »

blackeagle603 wrote:@ Souperman: .400 Corbon is what you're thinking of.
I thought .400 Cor-Bon was .45 ACP necked to .40, not .45 WinMag.
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SoupOrMan
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by SoupOrMan »

And while I'm thinking about stuff like this, why haven't the boffins ever put together a rimless .357 Magnum for the PDW crowd? They could use the same cartridge dimensions, just rimless to feed into a semi-auto or automatic weapon.
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Jered
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by Jered »

SoupOrMan wrote:And while I'm thinking about stuff like this, why haven't the boffins ever put together a rimless .357 Magnum for the PDW crowd? They could use the same cartridge dimensions, just rimless to feed into a semi-auto or automatic weapon.
Something like .30 carbine?
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blackeagle603
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by blackeagle603 »

I thought .400 Cor-Bon was .45 ACP necked to .40, not .45 WinMag.
That's correct. The "Mag" part of that didn't register with me.
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Combat Controller
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by Combat Controller »

You forgot to compare .357 sig in your listings. Fast Rope had some 124's going 1600 fps out of his 5 inch XD IIRC.
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mousegun
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Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs .38 Super vs 9x23 vs .357 mag

Post by mousegun »

SoupOrMan wrote:And while I'm thinking about stuff like this, why haven't the boffins ever put together a rimless .357 Magnum for the PDW crowd? They could use the same cartridge dimensions, just rimless to feed into a semi-auto or automatic weapon.
Basically a 351 WSL but in true rimless and true 357 diameter.

You MIGHT be able to do it with a 223 head diameter and brass but it's gonna be real close.
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