A different 308 thread

The place for general discussion about guns, gun (and gun parts) technology discussion, gun reviews, and gun specific range reports; and shooting, training, techniques, reviews and reports.
Post Reply
Precision
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm

A different 308 thread

Post by Precision » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:58 pm

The thread by Rich Jordan http://theguncounter.com/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=28088 got me thinking again.

I have several Ar15's in 5.56 (plus two in 9mm, one in 45acp). My precision rifle will hit stuff at 600 yards easily, but it won't hit with authority (+/- 450 #/ft). I have a couple of Mosin's but accuracy of a mosin and no scopes. I have my 6.5 x 284 which is a thumper, but it is a single shot and weighs like the dickens. (+/- 14#)

I am very strongly considering a semi auto 308 as a SHTF long range platform that would still be carryable in a bug out situation. As in NOT a benchrest queen. Ease of mounting a scope is important. I have been toying with several ideas

Keltec RFB, especially if I can get the 24" although I might go with the 18" and run the can
pros - short, quite accurate, low recoil, fairly light and very balanced
... 20 round mags
cons- in shtf, no parts so it is a gun that gets me to the next gun
... - mediocre trigger and not so sure about lifespan under abuse
... - street price about $1600

M1A 18" or longer
pros - iconic, lots of parts to fix it with, decent weight
... option of 25 round mags
... 22 inch barrel is an option
cons - Buying from Springfield, some are quite finicky
.... street price around $1500-1900

AR-10
Pros - lots of set up options, similar manual of arms to AR-15
... likely less expensive for similar performance to above choices
... lots of mag size and manufacturer choices
... trigger and other upgrades are available
cons - at least 3 standards of build that are not parts or even upper / lower compatible
.... even currently, parts are suspect on working

I have only shot 2 FAL's not sure which and did not like the ergonomics. I should shoot more and see
I have shot a CETME of unknown origin and it had horrible ergonomics and was a failure queen (likely a Century)

Considering I want this as a zombie / go to war gun capable of 600+ yard chest hits with reliability, suggestions? Even if it is a different caliber or platform.
The main goal is to upgrade hitting power at distance without giving up the reliability of my fcurrent AR-15 platform.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
My little part of the blogosphere. http://blogletitburn.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7271
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Jered » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:07 pm

Have you thought about waiting to see of they sell the Tavor 7 on the US market?
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
Mike OTDP
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Mike OTDP » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:40 pm

These days, I'd go AR-10.

If you think about it, an FAL means either a parts gun or a DSA. DSA makes a fine rifle, but it's the only manufacturer. Ditto for G3 clones.

An M-14 is tempting, but you'll pay for quality. FWIW, I'd look at either James River Armory or Fulton Armory for one. And to a degree, they are orphans...you don't have the logistics train any more.

An AR-10 has a lot of commonality with AR-15 components. And they aren't the maintenance pigs that M-14s are.

Two other options:
a. M1 Garand in 7.62. Plenty of parts, the only difference is the barrel.
b. AR-15 in a non-5.56 chambering.

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7271
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Jered » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:56 am

Mike OTDP wrote: If you think about it, an FAL means either a parts gun or a DSA. DSA makes a fine rifle, but it's the only manufacturer. Ditto for G3 clones.
I scored a SAR-4800, but, it was a used one.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Rich Jordan
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:04 am

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Rich Jordan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:39 am

Has the RFB overcome its quality/reliability issues? I was very interested when they came out but initial reviews and testing were pretty bad.

Of course that seems to be the way with KelTec. Wait a year and a couple revisions after introduction and you can get a pretty good gun.


I had read quite a bit about the 6.5 Grendel cartridge when deciding what new AR to add (I went with .300 Blackout, which is not a good match for your requirements). A lot of folks bought the 6.5 Grendel version of the upper kit I bought. It seems a popular choice if you look at the AR platform, and it uses the AR15 sized components so I did some reading up on it.

Reportedly (no personal experience here) it is a fine mid-long range cartridge usable out to 600+ yards and accurate past that range. It won't have the legs of a cartridge based on .308 (a lot of the users there were salivating over 6.5 Creedmore, but that is a large frame caliber). The Grendel has a couple things going for it now; momentum and quite a few manufacturers producing ammo, even Wolf is producing steel cased that I've seen for $0.25/round or less. So reasonable practice ammo without reloading.

The competing .308 case based ammo, excluding .308/7.62 itself, seems to be a lot more expensive for basic ammo. Of course the good stuff for accurate long range won't be cheap for any caliber...

Precision
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Precision » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:20 pm

I have thought about going wildcat on the AR-15 platform.

I have considered 6.5 CM on the AR-10 platform, but I keep coming back to my ability to reload dies if I have to relocate / bugout. 308 is everywhere.

So help me with the AR-10 platform. I know PSA gets shit on, especially for their Gen 1 horror.
I know I can go with a JP and get an AWESOME gun but it runs $3500+. That is talking full custom bolt gun prices.
What is an in between method...and I am not opposed to self assembly.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
My little part of the blogosphere. http://blogletitburn.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Steamforger
Posts: 2784
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:41 pm

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Steamforger » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:12 pm

I'd start researching Aero M5E1, Sig 716, and Mega. Aero is certainly the more budget conscious of those, but I love everything by them that I have. Their cosmetic options are really limited, but I feel the product is solid. Much more so than PSA and for not terribly more money. They also make 6.5C uppers if you circle back to wanting one. Sig and Mega recommendations just come from experience with them. The shop manager for Mega is the brother of a former co worker and we've had numerous talks about their quality expectations coming out of their shop. I'd feel solid about purchasing any of their stuff.

Rich Jordan
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:04 am

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Rich Jordan » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:31 pm

I posted this in the other thread but again, LaRue is currently selling large frame kit uppers here.

If you buy an upper you are then eligible to buy one of their lowers (which they rarely sell standalone) or you can go with a compatible (and likely cheaper one) elsewhere. I have the small frame in .300 Blackout and its a sweet little gun. The large frame is one of the options for my future 7.62 rifle but in part because my BuildAR membership (closed) got me some nice discounts.

The LaRue topic at Arfcom under industry has a lot of info about these if you wish to research it.

User avatar
blackeagle603
Posts: 8981
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:13 am

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by blackeagle603 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:28 pm

yeah, lowest cost most direct route is a 6.5 on an AR-15.

The 6.5 doesn't give up anything on a .308. At longer ranges it retains more energy with less drift/drop than a .308 due to the better BC.

Stock up and by the time you're out of ammo in a true TEOTWAWKI SHTF scenario there should be plenty of .308's lying around to grab off the ground.
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story

Precision
Posts: 4581
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm

Re: A different 308 thread

Post by Precision » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:07 am

blackeagle603 wrote:yeah, lowest cost most direct route is a 6.5 on an AR-15.

The 6.5 doesn't give up anything on a .308. At longer ranges it retains more energy with less drift/drop than a .308 due to the better BC.

Stock up and by the time you're out of ammo in a true TEOTWAWKI SHTF scenario there should be plenty of .308's lying around to grab off the ground.
the only 6.5 (factory) that I am aware of that fits an AR-15 is the grendel and the ballistics on that are shit past 300.

This is interesting on the AR-15 platform although it is 6mm not 6.5mm. Although the terminal damage is less it does mean I can just run a second upper and not an entire second whole gun. http://6mmar.com/6mmAR_Turbo.html
2850 fps with 105-108 bullets. Compared to the 308, it gives up 200#ft at 600 yards, but still double the 77 gr 5.56. It is 15" better for drop and pretty close on wind drift to the 308 as well.

The Creedmoor is pretty good 140 gr at 2600-2650 fps and some wildcats are outstanding. They require AR-10 builds.

6.5 Super LR 140 gr at 2900 fps http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php

260 imp 30 140 gr at upto 3000 fps http://6mmar.com/260_Imp_30_.php

both are likely barrel burners at roughly 800-1000 rounds then huge accuracy declines But the amount of ammo will be less then that in SHTF, so.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
My little part of the blogosphere. http://blogletitburn.wordpress.com/

Post Reply