And the prices keep dropping

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Candyman
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And the prices keep dropping

Postby Candyman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:55 am

Got an email from Palmetto State Armory today around lunch time on their daily deal.
I could help myself and placed an order for an upper and lower.
IMG_0024.PNG

IMG_0025.PNG


$269.99 for the upper and $129.99 for the lower. And free shipping on both.
The prices keep getting better every day.
Now the question is, What am I going to do with it? It's not like I don't have enough ARs sitting around the house.
I guess I'll have to give it away.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:33 pm

I have two of their stainless "Freedom" line uppers. Great shooters for how little they cost.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby MarkD » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Someday I'm moving to America where I can have nice things....

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:22 pm

MarkD wrote:Someday I'm moving to America where I can have nice things....



I'll be out of NJ as soon as financially possible. But that hasn't stopped me from enjoying the AR platform. Yeah, I can't fold my stock because it makes the gun much more dangerous. Yeah, I can't add a bayonet because it's the number 2 way gang bangers kill their enemies. But I can still have fun killing paper with my ARs. Plus, all the neutering can be reversed when I leave (cutting off the welded compensators may be a bit of a PITA, but it can be done).

If you want an NJ compliant (spit) model, Gun For Hire is pretty close to you (I think). From what I hear, they do decent AR 15 build classes.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Darrell » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:30 am

I don't get why AKs have become so expensive, compared to ARs. I've seen it argued that modern CNC has helped lower the prices on ARs, vs. more traditional stamping and machining of AKS, not sure I see it, though.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby slowpoke » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:58 am

Darrell wrote:I don't get why AKs have become so expensive, compared to ARs. I've seen it argued that modern CNC has helped lower the prices on ARs, vs. more traditional stamping and machining of AKS, not sure I see it, though.

Different economies of scale. CNC lowered small run prices and saved having to make dedicated fixtures and tooling. Stampings require a dedicated die set, and the presses arent terribly cheaper than a cnc station. So if you were making 100k AKs per year so you were running your die sets constantly on dedicated presses, then yeah gets pretty cheap. If you piggyback production from china or russia who do same thing, but if you want to make a thousand a year you'll have trouble covering your tooling costs. On the gripping hand though, AR rifles really are the best platform, and we get them so cheaply :mrgreen:
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Durham68 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:32 am

The used handguns are piling up at the local shops with prices inching down more each month. I'm holding out until summer to see how much lower that can get.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Kommander » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:41 am

Darrell wrote:I don't get why AKs have become so expensive, compared to ARs. I've seen it argued that modern CNC has helped lower the prices on ARs, vs. more traditional stamping and machining of AKS, not sure I see it, though.


I think its the end of the cold war surplus and the ATF's war on imported kits, especially with the barrel ban. Most of the circa $300 AKs being sold 10 years ago were not really new guns, but remanufactured ones. There is nothing wrong with that of course, I owned one, liked it allot, and should not have sold it. The AKs sold today contain a much higher percentage of new parts, with many AKs on the market being made of entirely new parts.

Meanwhile the AR market has rapidly expanded, and competition between all the new manufacturers has resulted in lower prices. Some of this price cutting is the result of cutting corners and some is the result of improving manufacturing methods.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Precision » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:00 pm

rightisright wrote:
MarkD wrote:Someday I'm moving to America where I can have nice things....



I'll be out of NJ as soon as financially possible. But that hasn't stopped me from enjoying the AR platform. Yeah, I can't fold my stock because it makes the gun much more dangerous. Yeah, I can't add a bayonet because it's the number 2 way gang bangers kill their enemies. But I can still have fun killing paper with my ARs. Plus, all the neutering can be reversed when I leave (cutting off the welded compensators may be a bit of a PITA, but it can be done).

If you want an NJ compliant (spit) model, Gun For Hire is pretty close to you (I think). From what I hear, they do decent AR 15 build classes.



Many if not most "welded" comps are just soldered on. A little heat from a torch and presto...
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Candyman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:54 pm

rightisright wrote:
MarkD wrote:Someday I'm moving to America where I can have nice things....



I'll be out of NJ as soon as financially possible. But that hasn't stopped me from enjoying the AR platform. Yeah, I can't fold my stock because it makes the gun much more dangerous. Yeah, I can't add a bayonet because it's the number 2 way gang bangers kill their enemies. But I can still have fun killing paper with my ARs. Plus, all the neutering can be reversed when I leave (cutting off the welded compensators may be a bit of a PITA, but it can be done).

If you want an NJ compliant (spit) model, Gun For Hire is pretty close to you (I think). From what I hear, they do decent AR 15 build classes.

Why not just replace the barrel with a new one and go with a rail.
http://www.primaryarms.com/B556CM41618-P
https://www.deltateamtactical.com/AR-15 ... _4876.html
https://www.deltateamtactical.com/David ... _5207.html

Or you could go carbine with front sight tower.
http://www.jsesurplus.com/Del-Ton16M4Ba ... adium.aspx

But if you want to go carbine but still be able to mount a bayonet for Zombies then you will need to go with a midlenght gas system.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-14-7 ... 44648.html

I bet that in a few months the price of barrels with sight towers will be dropping.

The area where you are really going to save money is by building your own rifle. Intro level ARs are cheap but most people replace the stocks which will cost you another $75 to $150.
You can build the rifle of your dreams for under $1000. Out of these rifles all cost me under $1000 other then the one with the Jack lower.
040.JPG
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:28 pm

Precision wrote:

Many if not most "welded" comps are just soldered on. A little heat from a torch and presto...


NJ defines law only demands the process be "permanent". There is some discussion as to what that truly means. And with aggressive DA's, no one wants to take a chance, so every FFL I know, drills, pins and MIG or TIG welds over the pin. I do the same with mine at a buddy's shop. Silver solder is also generally considered "permanent", but I don't know anyone who does it.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Netpackrat » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:13 pm

Might be more cost effective to sell your Jerseyed rifles to another NJ resident, and build/buy new upon reaching Free America.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby HTRN » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:21 pm

Precision wrote:
rightisright wrote:
MarkD wrote:Someday I'm moving to America where I can have nice things....



I'll be out of NJ as soon as financially possible. But that hasn't stopped me from enjoying the AR platform. Yeah, I can't fold my stock because it makes the gun much more dangerous. Yeah, I can't add a bayonet because it's the number 2 way gang bangers kill their enemies. But I can still have fun killing paper with my ARs. Plus, all the neutering can be reversed when I leave (cutting off the welded compensators may be a bit of a PITA, but it can be done).

If you want an NJ compliant (spit) model, Gun For Hire is pretty close to you (I think). From what I hear, they do decent AR 15 build classes.



Many if not most "welded" comps are just soldered on. A little heat from a torch and presto...

This, or its ctially pinned and welded over, just a bit of grinding and it will come spinning of onve you yank the pin.

Speaking of pins, dont use solid ones, use hollow pins, as theyre much easier to remove from blind holes.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby HTRN » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:25 pm

slowpoke wrote:
Darrell wrote:I don't get why AKs have become so expensive, compared to ARs. I've seen it argued that modern CNC has helped lower the prices on ARs, vs. more traditional stamping and machining of AKS, not sure I see it, though.

CNC lowered small run prices

It wasnt so much cnc, as simply having only a couple of actual manufacturers, who will make lowers for whoever wants them. It lowers the cost per unit dramatically.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:41 pm

Another company with top quality stuff and decent prices is https://www.specopmfg.com/

Now, their shipping is slow (and they readily state that on their site). But if you don't need it in a rush, they are good to go.

Barrels are 4150 CM, nitrided, MPI and HPT. BCGs are mil-spec (C158, shot peened, MPI, HPT, etc.). Rails and other parts are well made and reasonably priced.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:43 pm

Netpackrat wrote:Might be more cost effective to sell your Jerseyed rifles to another NJ resident, and build/buy new upon reaching Free America.


True. I would probably keep the higher quality ones and sell the others depending on what the market is like at the time.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby HTRN » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:46 pm

Or you know, you could just swap the barrel, or even the upper receiver assembly.
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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Candyman » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:19 pm

There are still only five manufacturers of milspec lowers and Spikes Tactical is not one of them. Most remember Red Jacket Firearms. They got their gun kits from Spikes. Spikes got them from one of the five manufacturers.
Now when it comes to billet uppers and lowers there are many that make them. Joe Bob Outfitters has the Spartan billet lower for AR15s or the AR9 that takes the Glock mags. Joe Bobs does not make them, New Frontier Armory makes them. They also make the AR9mm Glock mag lowers that Palmetto State Armory sales.
Anderson Manufacturing is one of the manufacturers of AR uppers and lowers and really upset the AR world by dropping the price of their named brand stripped lowers a while back.
I know a guy that builds ARs and tells people that Anderson lowers are cheap and not to use them. He likes to use another name brand lower that Anderson makes.
A few years ago Mossberg was the largest manufacturer of AR barrels, making about 60% of the barrels that were on the market or used by companies to build their rifles. With the cost of CNC machines going down companies like Bearcreek Arsenal is making barrels that shoot great and cost under $150.
I have a friend that owns a gun shop and sales everything you need to build ARs. The other week he told me that it was crazy how cheap he was able to buy parts for. He is buying Aero Precision stripped lowers, having them Cerakoted in different colors and selling them for $100 and still making money.
The free market is great and with the reduced regulation that are in the works things will only get better.
Do not relish to feel what the men that used these weapons felt when they saw the elephant. For the elephant has tusk and to see him is to have his tusk dig deep into your soul. You will always have a part of you that will be cold and empty.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:40 pm

Candyman wrote:Anderson Manufacturing is one of the manufacturers of AR uppers and lowers and really upset the AR world by dropping the price of their named brand stripped lowers a while back.
I know a guy that builds ARs and tells people that Anderson lowers are cheap and not to use them. He likes to use another name brand lower that Anderson makes.

I picked up a few Anderson lowers right before the election. They are fine. I'd much rather put money into a good quality BCG, barrel, trigger, etc. than worry about what roll mark my lower has on it.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Darrell » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:28 am

Looks like we hit the $400 price point someone (HTRN?) mentioned a while back. All the same, it blows my mind that something like a WASR now goes for more than an AR.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Netpackrat » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:17 pm

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Steamforger » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:36 pm

PSA? Never again after the last hack job they did on a CHF barrel for me, thank you very much.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Candyman » Mon May 01, 2017 7:04 pm

Steamforger wrote:PSA? Never again after the last hack job they did on a CHF barrel for me, thank you very much.

Did they ever make it right for you?

I handle a lot of guns and have seen the good and the bad from just about everyone. Like the two Colt ARs my buddy had to return to Colt. He ordered four Colt carbines to put out on the rack in his shop. He discovered that two of them had the front sight tower installed canted.
I just test fired two ARs. One was a Daniel Defense DDM4V4. Nice rifle in great shape, but I couldn't tell you what you were getting for the extra money.
The other was a standard Bushmaster AR carbine, XM15-E2S. Now this rifle was found property. It was found under a house. I don't know how long it had been there, but the barrel was covered with rust and the other steel parts on the outside had rust too. The inside of the gun was filthy, like someone had fired a few hundred rounds and not cleaned it. The bore had trash and spider webs in it. All I did was punch the bore with a nylon brush and a patch. It fired and functioned without any trouble.

I find that people are amazed when they find out that most companies that build ARs don't make the parts that they use.
And the price of parts? A friend that owns a local shop has been stocking AR parts for about a year now. He is buying barrels from a known barrel manufacture from $45 to $60 and is able to sell them for $100. He sells handrails. keymod and Mlok for $75. If he buys them in lots of 40 or more at a time, his cost is $35 a rail.
Do not relish to feel what the men that used these weapons felt when they saw the elephant. For the elephant has tusk and to see him is to have his tusk dig deep into your soul. You will always have a part of you that will be cold and empty.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Steamforger » Tue May 02, 2017 12:39 am

Candyman wrote:
Steamforger wrote:PSA? Never again after the last hack job they did on a CHF barrel for me, thank you very much.

Did they ever make it right for you?


After 5 or 6 weeks of no comms I finally got an email saying they would be happy to replace the barrel, but they needed the entire upper, not just the barrel and the A frame. I would need to ship it back on their label, they would inspect and replace, and ship back to me.

Seeing as how I had discovered the damage in the process of taking the upper apart for coating, and had replaced the barrel anyway, I found it easier to just give them a C- for effort and write them off. A friend of a friend deal fell through and I ended up getting an Odin Works 18" 3-gun profile barrel for it (almost finished with this build.)

The CHF barrel is at least functional, if ugly. I don't have it on anything and doubt I'll put it on anything anytime soon. They probably could have made it right if I had enough foresight to realize they were incredibly backlogged and took their time getting in touch, but I think shipping both ways would have been a gamble considering their previous shipping habits in my dealings with them. There was also the concern that pulling apart the upper would have voided any warranty anyway.

The CHF is in the spares bin and will probably stay there until I realize I have enough parts laying around to build a beater 20" AR. I should be building my own uppers anyway.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby rightisright » Tue May 02, 2017 1:53 am

Steamforger wrote:
Candyman wrote:
Steamforger wrote:PSA? Never again after the last hack job they did on a CHF barrel for me, thank you very much.

Did they ever make it right for you?


After 5 or 6 weeks of no comms I finally got an email saying they would be happy to replace the barrel, but they needed the entire upper, not just the barrel and the A frame. I would need to ship it back on their label, they would inspect and replace, and ship back to me.

Seeing as how I had discovered the damage in the process of taking the upper apart for coating, and had replaced the barrel anyway, I found it easier to just give them a C- for effort and write them off. A friend of a friend deal fell through and I ended up getting an Odin Works 18" 3-gun profile barrel for it (almost finished with this build.)

The CHF barrel is at least functional, if ugly. I don't have it on anything and doubt I'll put it on anything anytime soon. They probably could have made it right if I had enough foresight to realize they were incredibly backlogged and took their time getting in touch, but I think shipping both ways would have been a gamble considering their previous shipping habits in my dealings with them. There was also the concern that pulling apart the upper would have voided any warranty anyway.

The CHF is in the spares bin and will probably stay there until I realize I have enough parts laying around to build a beater 20" AR. I should be building my own uppers anyway.


FN USA makes their CHF barrels. I guess even the best companies fuck up. I've had decent luck w. PSA. My only bad experience was with one of their AR-10 lowers. I had to hit it with the Dremel a bit. They did offer to replace it, but it was for a lower cost build and I didn't want to go through the hassle.

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Re: And the prices keep dropping

Postby Candyman » Wed May 10, 2017 12:14 am

Well, the lower came in last week and I finally got a chance to pick it up today. It took me so long because, I've been working straight 12s due to the DOJs verdict in the Alton Sterling shooting last week, and the possibility of riots here in Baton Rouge.
I didn't have to pay a transfer fee, which saved me $20, but I did have to pick up a rear sight. On the way home I picked up a carry handle for $20 from a local shop. I also used one of the PSA mags that I got a while back for $6.40, it pays to buy in bulk.
So total cost for the rifle is $426.38.
IMG_0381.JPG


If things keep up like this, in a few months you could build one cheaper.
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