12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

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hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by hubel585 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:46 am

I'm visiting here to talk about the 12ga From Hell and
other developements it has led to.Nice site you folks have.
I'm with a group of experimenters passing on the years of
info and pictures to all gun nuts around the net, about
12ga From Hell and other big bores. We have posted some
round the net about our many ideas we have implemented for
12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga,28ga,20ga,16ga, and my 585HE/700HE wildcats.

The idea for the 12ga FH, and the first gun built for it,
was Rob Garnicks on the AR Forums. In the first picture,
a heavy duty Borchardt falling block. He has gotten
1000 gr to 3000 fps in this, a high pressure action.

Then I and others joined in and set up a big variety
of guns for the case. The case, a brass case 3.85" long,
made from BMG brass expanded out with straight sides,
to take 12ga .729" dia slugs and a 12ga size rim added on.
Also we get turned brass cases from Rocky Mtn Cart of that
length and shorter. Many guys used 3.5" cases, as standard
reamers are available, and 12ga 3.5" guns are available,
so that they could shoot 3.5" plastic also. Our 3.85" chamber
and 3.5" will shoot any of the shorter cases.
In our work we found ways to get over a third more velocity
in shorter plastic and brass cases using slower powders
than regular fast shotgun powders. We reloaded fast
rifle powder, IMR 4759, IMR 4227, in larger amounts
and got 600gr hard lead slugs over 1800 fps in 24" barrels,
and were lab tested to be at or under magnum shotgun
pressures that are used in factory 3.5" loads.


More pictures, the 2nd showing long brass 12ga FH case with
regular 12ga case. Other 12ga FH guns are next,3rd Nef Ultra
heavy barrel with length added, 4th Nef 8ga made by boring
out heavy barrel 10ga, 5th FBW falling block,my 585HE belted
case.The FBW has a 20ga 3.5" extra barrel also.
.And we also worked with 8ga,4ga, in falling blocks, 20ga,16ga
in break actions, and my wildcat 585HE,700HE in various actions.

6th picture is our big cartridges from 2 bore on down, in
order-2bore- 4ga- 8ga- 10ga- 12ga FH- 700HE--700H 3.25- 30-06..
7th picture is 4bore falling block we built on our design.
Our 4bore is 1 inch bore.We also helped in getting the barrel
threads larger in the new large MRC PH bolt action to fit our
cases like the 700H 3.25" shown in 8th picture in MRC.

9th picture is an 8bore bolt gun a guy on another forum built
from scratch.Last is Savage 210 that Bret in MN set up with
heavy barrel and a recoil reducer put into the hollow stock.
Shown with boot off so you can see the build. He has gotten
saboted 500gr slugs over 3000 in this.We will post a bunch
more info and we welcome your ideas and help. And we'll give
all the help we can to folks ..Ed Hubel

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Netpackrat
Posts: 12538
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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by Netpackrat » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:44 am

Dang, heck of a first post. My shoulder cringes in terror at the sight of those creations.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Ass-op

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blackeagle603
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:13 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by blackeagle603 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:25 pm

Yeah, I think that sets a new standard for first posts. Saw some of your earlier reports on this work elsewhere. Most excellent.

Gets me thinking about the possibilities for the H&R Topper 12 ga I have at the back of my safe. It's going pretty much unused but not forgotten. It was my purchase (at age 13 after my first paper route colllection). It's worthy of being used for this sort of madness.
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story

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Aglifter
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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by Aglifter » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:52 pm

There are sick, sick people in the Big Bore section of the Accurate Reloading forum - the big bore shoots are great
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto

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arctictom
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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by arctictom » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:10 pm

I love big bores and this is a very fun thing to do with your extra time is make really big guns, I just don't want another gun safe.
And welcome to our forum .
You live and learn.
Or you don't live long.

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by hubel585 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:25 am

Videos Youtube --blowing up 6gal pail of water ---"Grandpa's Cannon"
"Grandpa's First Shot" -- 12ga FH -- 610gr HP at 2800-3000.

We get asked about legality and whether these big cartridges
are DDs. First of all; all shotgun calibers over 50cal are exempt from
being classified as DDs under Title 18 GCA Section 921....
And it doesn't matter what exciting or promo name we call them,
the barrels are still marked for gauge. They can be called 12ga 3 Inch
Super Magnum, 12ga Goose Magnum, 12ga From hell, 12ga 3.5 Express,
12ga Hammerhead, etc, they still are a 12ga case of some length.
And length doesn't matter as long as shorter cases, with straight
sides, and same 12ga(or whatever gauge)base size fit and fire in
longer chambers. IE; 2.5, 2.75, and 3" firing in 3.5", and all of these
firing in our 3.85" longer chamber. IE; you can't take 37mm cannon
shell and neck it to 12ga and have an automatically exempt 12ga
cartridge, as other shorter 12 gauges would not fit/fire in chamber,
and you'd have to get it exempt as sporting. How-
Under the same Section any other over 50cal non-shotgun
cartridge can be classified as Exempt For Sporting Use by
applying for the exemption, like I have done for my cases,and many
others(JDJ-AHR-Etc) have done, as well as cases already sporting
from the old days. Now as for hunting rules in shotgun areas,
game depts may say that you can't use long range spitzer bullets
but must use traditional blunt slugs, for safety. Hunting rules are
varied all over the place.

More history of firsts, in our 12ga FH and big bore work.

The first gun of mine to have this case was
my Savage 210 in first picture with a regular style
heavy stock. Later changed to thumbhole stock.
I changed barrel to heavy bull barrel and
chambered it for the 12ga FH 3.85" long case.

Second picture is the first NEF 12ga Ultra that we put
the first 12ga fH case in. I only had to lengthen chamber.
The same gun now has long barrel and thumbhole stock.

Third picture is first NEF 10ga heavy barrel that we put
the 10ga FH in. Gun came with long 30" heavy barrel.

Fourth picture is the first 8ga test gun we built using the
super strong 8ga kiln cases with the belt step swaged
down. It is an Enfield that we reamed out to take the
case, like the 12ga Mauser 12ga conversions were done.
And we added extra rear bolt lugs for strength.

Fifth picture is the 1st gun my 585HE was put in.
It is an Enfield and gets 750gr bullet 2700 fps.

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And in the vein of old time gun actions, of which are various falling
blocks, we like them also for the hairy big bores, like the 8bore and
4bore ones we made over the years, that are pictured above.
Following are 3 pictures of various parts and processes of making the
action, using easy to get small parts, lever, trigger, hammer, etc,
and the action block, breach block from steel blocks in 1st pic.

Last 2 pictures are the FBW brand falling blocks, one which is the
Model L that we adapted to the one piece stock and the other is the
smaller Model S with regular two piece stock. Both are set up with
my 585HE. I can run full pressure in the 585.

The Model L, I can switch to a 20ga barrel, 600NE barrel,
and my 700HE using moderate loads. Last pic is Model L with
thumb hole stock, and my 585HE case in the action..Ed

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HTRN
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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by HTRN » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:09 pm

Aglifter wrote:There are sick, sick people in the Big Bore section of the Accurate Reloading forum
That may be the understatement of the week. :lol:
Ed and his 12 gauge from hell.
R Neil Shirley and the 550 Magnum.
Dr. Rob Garnett and the 600 Overkill.

Hell the forum has it's own magnum cartridges - ".416/.458/.470/.500 Accurate Reloading".

You can do the same thing Ed's doing on a somewhat more sedate level, by using either a Savage 210, or an H&R slug gun, and some robust 12 gauge brass hulls - Rocky Mtn Cartridge springs to mind. Qual Cart might have "Paradox" style hulls too. Now get a mold(NEI has a .732 dia/835 grn cherry) or use something like Dixie terminator slugs - their patterned after a paradox style slug.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt

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Aglifter
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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by Aglifter » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:43 pm

Did anyone try converting a Saiga to a 12FH? (Insert maniacal laughter)... Er, using someone else's shoulder...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by hubel585 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:54 am

We are thinking of Saiga conversion to heavy barrel, when we get one.

Now some info on cases and slugs
The 50 BMG brass can be made into some real
great cartridges, our 12ga FH, shown first, showing
cases with rim turned off and threaded; and the 12ga rim
pieces to be screwed on, with finished cases shown.
And 2nd making my 700HE showing original BMG case,
case with belt only, and then expanded out to 700cal.
This makes a super strong big bore case, as I have
fired some 25 times and case is still good.And
it in my big Vulcan bolt gun gets a 1000gr to 3200.

3rd picture shows our 4bore/ga case with slugs, and
the 20mm case we make them from. They match the 4bore
turned cases that are used in the Ken Owen doubles.
4th the Rocky Mtn Cartridge, 12ga turned 3.5" cases
with variety of slugs and sabots.In picture first loaded
one is BPI sabot, then 730gr Dixie, then 600gr Dixie,
then RG Henson's solid nose and his hollowpoint.
RMC can make cases any length and any gauge.
5th shows a 12ga FH and 10ga FH we made using steel
basecups taken from 12 and 10 ga cases. We turned down
bases a few thousands of the original brass cases
and epoxied the bases. Used BMG case s for 12ga and
50cal Russian for 10ga.This research came from a
another forum poster, like over half of what we do.Ed

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More pictures of 12ga slugs and saboted slugs.
1st The US-S sabot/slug, with the green locked on base,
along with others.The US-S slug is nearly as accurate
in smoothbores, for which it is made, as sabots are
in rifled. those pictured are heavier than most other
brands of saboted slugs.

2nd a Jacketed 730gr by RG Henson and a hard,heat treated
600gr by Dixie Slugs in FL, both full bore slugs,
3rd a BPI sabot with hardcast 440gr, .504"
diameter slug. BPIs were intended to use .500" bullets
used in 500S&W, the little larger ones we use seem
little more accurate.Makes tighter fit in rifled barrels.
4th other sabots we tested ,
and there are many other slugs/sabots we'll show..Ed


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MarkD
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Post by MarkD » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:27 pm

I know this is entirely the wrong question to ask, but what purpose do these thumpers perform that's not already handled by existing cartridges? Has someone made Jurassic Park real without my knowledge?

I get it, people want a .600 nitro because no one makes a .700 nitro, until someone does, then they want that until someone makes an .800. "Just because" is a perfectly valid answer, but there comes a point where any animal that walks the earth can be hunted at any range at which you can reliably hit the vital zone, so some of these cartridges just seem to be punishing the shooter more without making the animal any deader. So, do these cartridges do anything except thump the shooter any better than, say, a .458 Lott, .470/.500/.600 Nitro, .460 Weatherby, etc?

Awaiting HTRN's statement-of-purpose in 3-2-1.....

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