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 Post subject: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:05 am 
Loose Cannon
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Does anyone know if anyone if they make a 12ga beehive round like this one? http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com/beehive.html
maybe that shoots like 5 instead of 10.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:12 am 
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The ones a buddy of mine picked up from a gun show a while back were a joke. Most wouldn't go through the paper target, much less the plywood behind it.

ETA, the ones he had were nothing like the one in your link.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:22 am 
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No idea.

For $600, I think I would buy a Ruger 10/22 instead, and learn to cycle the trigger really quickly, or just shoot 12-ga buckshot. From a rifled barrel that short, there can hardly be any accuracy gain, and it will be lost by the bullets crowding down the barrel of the shotgun anyway.

I used to have a 7.5x55 to .22 conversion cartridge. It was basically for delivering a "coup de grace" behind an animal's ear. It was also rifled, but accuracy at anything beyond touching distances was abysmal.


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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:07 pm 
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There's no way that's going to work against Chicago's City Hall. I'd stick with regular buckshot or slugs.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:18 pm 
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How does that work, anyway? :? It looks like it should be a salt shaker or a pasta press. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Windy Wilson wrote:
How does that work, anyway? :? It looks like it should be a salt shaker or a pasta press. ;)


you load it with several rimfires. The firing pin on the shotgun looses 10 rounds of 22.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:53 pm 
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There's a discussion here with a drawing some guy had for a three round 12 gauge beehive.


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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:16 pm 
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And THAT friends, is a machine gun according to the ATF.

More than one round of fixed ammunition is fired with each actuation of the firing mechanism.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:39 pm 
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CByrneIV wrote:
And THAT friends, is a machine gun according to the ATF.

More than one round of fixed ammunition is fired with each actuation of the firing mechanism.


i thought that it wasnt a machine gun because it is only one 40mm or 12ga round fired at one time...? just sending multiple projectiles at once just like standard buckshot does



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:50 pm 
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The Wizard wrote:
CByrneIV wrote:
And THAT friends, is a machine gun according to the ATF.

More than one round of fixed ammunition is fired with each actuation of the firing mechanism.


i thought that it wasnt a machine gun because it is only one 40mm or 12ga round fired at one time...? just sending multiple projectiles at once just like standard buckshot does


Nope. Those 10 rounds of .22 are "fixed ammunition". That counts as igniting multiple rounds with 1 firing actuation.

If there was a separate primer, powder charge, and bullet, without being surrounded by a cartridge case, it wouldn't be. It would just be another unregulated weapon. Since you actually load fixed case ammo into it, it's a machine gun.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:58 am 
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What Chris said.

If you want to inaccurately shoot ten .220 pellets from your shotgun then why not just shoot #F shot (.220) and get 28 pellets to the ounce?

Other then having run out of shotshells and you've stockpiled a shit load of rimfire I can not conceive of an application for this device.

Bulls and teats come to mind!



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:55 am 
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SeekHer wrote:
Other then having run out of shotshells and you've stockpiled a shit load of rimfire I can not conceive of an application for this device.


I can - it's called "having something to shoot out of a nice shiny new 40mm grenade launcher that doesn't cost 20 bucks each time you pull the trigger".


HTRN



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:09 am 
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HTRN wrote:
SeekHer wrote:
Other then having run out of shotshells and you've stockpiled a shit load of rimfire I can not conceive of an application for this device.


I can - it's called "having something to shoot out of a nice shiny new 40mm grenade launcher that doesn't cost 20 bucks each time you pull the trigger".

HTRN


I agree that would be a lovely thing to do but the OP (The Wizard) wanted it for a 12 bore shotgun not a 40mm grenade launcher which most of us c/would never own anyway.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:49 am 
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CByrneIV wrote:
And THAT friends, is a machine gun according to the ATF.

It is linked from a page titled, "SBR's, DD's, and AOW's".

That means, if it was manufactured and registered after May 19, 1986, it's only available to law enforcement and military.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:36 am 
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SeekHer wrote:
HTRN wrote:
SeekHer wrote:
Other then having run out of shotshells and you've stockpiled a shit load of rimfire I can not conceive of an application for this device.


I can - it's called "having something to shoot out of a nice shiny new 40mm grenade launcher that doesn't cost 20 bucks each time you pull the trigger".

HTRN


I agree that would be a lovely thing to do but the OP (The Wizard) wanted it for a 12 bore shotgun not a 40mm grenade launcher which most of us c/would never own anyway.


yep i did except i was under the impression that it wouldnt be a machine gun because as i said even though it would be several rounds of fixed .22LR it would be encased in a single 12Ga shell and fired by a single primer strike...

time to derail my own thread....

if someone were to make a gun, say a double barrel shotgun that had a single trigger, and built it to volley fire both barrels every time that the trigger was pulled am i correct in assuming that it would also be a machine gun or destructive device or both?



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Quote:
if someone were to make a gun, say a double barrel shotgun that had a single trigger, and built it to volley fire both barrels every time that the trigger was pulled am i correct in assuming that it would also be a machine gun or destructive device or both?


That's about the size of it. I'd personally stick with buckshot.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:35 pm 
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That picture of the beehive round is interesting, but I'm surprised they don't just use a giant shotgun cartridge instead.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:58 pm 
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SoupOrMan wrote:
That picture of the beehive round is interesting, but I'm surprised they don't just use a giant shotgun cartridge instead.


In the old M79 "Blooper" guns they did along with WP, HE, anti personnel and flares.

Who would buy it? Police and military can get the real rounds and it would be illegal for anyone else as Chris pointed out.

Why would they? Ten pellets coming out of a 37 or 40mm tube to begin with and then the aerodynamics--if you'd want to call it that...Do you think, one bullet at ten yards would stick in point first? Wonder what the spread would be like?



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:13 am 
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SoupOrMan wrote:
That picture of the beehive round is interesting, but I'm surprised they don't just use a giant shotgun cartridge instead.


Because a giant shotgun cartridge would itself be considered a destructive device, and there would be a $200 tax on each one.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:13 am 
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The Wizard wrote:
if someone were to make a gun, say a double barrel shotgun that had a single trigger, and built it to volley fire both barrels every time that the trigger was pulled am i correct in assuming that it would also be a machine gun or destructive device or both?


Yes -- it would be a MACHINE GUN according to the BATFEces FTB.

Read the transcripts of Olafson's trial -- this point was hammered home over and over, and is the reason he's in prison instead of walking around free.

According to the BATFEces,
Quote:
the law says ANY weapon firing more than one round with a single trigger-pull is a machine gun.
Quote:
"So, if Grandpa's double-barrel was broken and fired both at once, it's a machine gun?"
Quote:
the law says ANY weapon firing more than one round with a single trigger-pull is a machine gun.
Quote:
Even if it's BROKEN??!!
Quote:
the law says ANY weapon firing more than one round with a single trigger-pull is a machine gun.
Quote:
Even though it wasn't designed to multi-fire, even though nobody tampered with it -- even though it's just broken??!!
Quote:
the law says ANY weapon firing more than one round with a single trigger-pull is a machine gun.


Continue to repeat, ad-nauseum.

DD



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:50 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Even though it wasn't designed to multi-fire, even though nobody tampered with it -- even though it's just broken??!!
Quote:
the law says ANY weapon firing more than one round with a single trigger-pull is a machine gun.


The frightening part is talking to gunsmiths in training. I understand that accidently removing too much sear and going full-auto is standard fare when learning to tune 1911s. Sure would suck to have a three-letter agent next to you at the range when you discovered that mistake.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:25 pm 
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It is this removal of intent as an element of so many crimes nowadays that is the biggest threat to liberty.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Windy Wilson wrote:
It is this removal of intent as an element of so many crimes nowadays that is the biggest threat to liberty.


I've written several times before, here and on my blgo, that I believe it is, yes.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:17 am 
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Check out the SPIW fiasco, aka Project Salvo.

The entire US military industrial complex tried it's best to create a small calibre COFRAM and couldn't.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:37 am 
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CByrneIV wrote:
SoupOrMan wrote:
That picture of the beehive round is interesting, but I'm surprised they don't just use a giant shotgun cartridge instead.


Because a giant shotgun cartridge would itself be considered a destructive device, and there would be a $200 tax on each one.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but that only applies to the 37mm flare launchers, as their not firearms, right? The tax stamped 40mm grenade launcher would be able to shoot them, without a tax stamp on the cartridges, because they're inert. an 8 gauge Industrial, or even 4 gauge adapter would be a lot of fun.



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 Post subject: Re: 12Ga Beehive Round??
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:00 am 
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HTRN wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that only applies to the 37mm flare launchers, as their not firearms, right? The tax stamped 40mm grenade launcher would be able to shoot them, without a tax stamp on the cartridges, because they're inert. an 8 gauge Industrial, or even 4 gauge adapter would be a lot of fun.


Yes, because that would count as recognized fixed case inert ammunition for a licensed device.

If it's a licensed device, does not shoot fixed case ammo, or it's a device with a recognized sporting purpose exemption; then the ammo for them isn't itself considered a destructive device (so long as the projectile is inert).



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