12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

The place for general discussion about guns, gun (and gun parts) technology discussion, gun reviews, and gun specific range reports; and shooting, training, techniques, reviews and reports.
hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:29 pm

Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed

Image


About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.
It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet.
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887.
Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.


Image

Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:47 pm

A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.

Image


Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF

Image


On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:38 am

Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun cases, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
These with light brass slugs supposed to do over 2000 fps.

Image


Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as Rocky Mtn Rifle. Video is on Youtube of testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second one they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..

Image

Picture of Rossi singleshot with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, for testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got lots of cases. Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:36 am

Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.

Image

The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

Told company if they did them NEFUltra style, rifled, heavy 12ga slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:39 am

We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,

Image


Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.

Image


Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Thu May 12, 2016 7:17 am

Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

Image

Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

Image

Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:19 am

There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

Image


Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:51 am

Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.


Image



Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.


Image



That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED


Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:39 pm

Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.

Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----

b.bertram1@bigpond.com ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).



Image


Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed


Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:29 pm

Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

Image


Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.

Image


I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,


Image


Ed

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:25 pm

Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale


We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The other couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the other one...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. King of 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

Here's how we size and seat 375 HE, a simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press.That way I can clean pocket, check
flash hole,....... SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight. About .35" down.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:14 pm

Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture

http://www.gunownerstv.com/brianbuff.jpg

http://www.gunownerstv.com/briangun.jpg


Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:03 am

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..

Image



Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.

Image


Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.

Image


Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our bigger case .Ed

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:55 pm

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.

Image


Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases,
2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..

Image

Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.

Image

Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..


Image


Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:18 am

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

Image

Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.

Image

Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..

Image


Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:26 am

The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..

Image


More info out now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
and debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

Image

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:28 am

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made by necking our 585 HE big belted case.

Image


Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM on the right..

Image


Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,

Image



A 375 HE, with Lawton action, few are being done with those,Ed .....

Image

User avatar
HTRN
Probably Unemployed
Posts: 10636
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:05 am
Location: Under your bed with a knife
Contact:

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby HTRN » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:20 am

hubel585 wrote:Many think straightening is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom. When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat. The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed

Image

Thats actually pretty clever. To expand on that, it would be really easy to make a new tang piece on a mill, and an alignment pin/screw setup out of a precision shoulder bolt. After youre done tacking it all together, just use an endmill to remove the original, and grind flush.
EGO partum , proinde EGO sum

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

hubel585
Case Shiner
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:27 am

Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big bores--

Postby hubel585 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:28 pm

A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2 ... 3184_n.mp4


Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...

Image


Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

and is checking on better powder, Ed..



https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecis ... tion=group


Return to “Guns and Shooting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests