In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

The place to discuss ammunition, reloading, ballistics, loads, and chamberings.
rightisright
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by rightisright »

You can use hollow point slugs for deer and bear. .22 LR for some small game and up to .25 caliber for fox and coyote. Of course being NJ, there are all sorts of other ridiculous restrictions. You can use a .22 LR for squirrels but only .22 Short for racoon or possum. Makes sense, right? :roll:
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HTRN
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by HTRN »

Greg wrote:(I don't think there's anything in NJ you're allowed to hunt with HP's)
Is there any commercial shotgun ammo with HPs?
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rightisright
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by rightisright »

HTRN wrote:
Greg wrote:(I don't think there's anything in NJ you're allowed to hunt with HP's)
Is there any commercial shotgun ammo with HPs?
A quick check of my shotgun ammo stock shows 12 gauge HP in Winchester, Federal and Remington. I'm sure there are others.
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randy
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by randy »

When carrying any pistol ammo what's loaded in my weapon and the mags on my body are hollow points of some sort. In my backup ammo can (which also holds ammo for whatever truck long gun I'm using and a cleaning kit) in the vehicle, I usually have a least a partial box of HP, and a box or 2 of FMJs. Simply because I want some spare ammo close by if TSHTF and I can't justify the expense to buy enough HPs to stock just in case.

If I get to the point that I've expended 100+ rounds in a situation, the difference between HP and FMJ is not likely to be critical.

Besides, it provides a small stock of plinking ammo should the opportunity arise for an unplanned range visit.
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Precision
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by Precision »

randy wrote:When carrying any pistol ammo what's loaded in my weapon and the mags on my body are hollow points of some sort. In my backup ammo can (which also holds ammo for whatever truck long gun I'm using and a cleaning kit) in the vehicle, I usually have a least a partial box of HP, and a box or 2 of FMJs. Simply because I want some spare ammo close by if TSHTF and I can't justify the expense to buy enough HPs to stock just in case.

If I get to the point that I've expended 100+ rounds in a situation, the difference between HP and FMJ is not likely to be critical.

Besides, it provides a small stock of plinking ammo should the opportunity arise for an unplanned range visit.
I do much the same thing except I don't carry FMJ as my back up box of ammo. I use a box or two of my reload that are plated truncated cone. Some of the benefit of a hollow point and MUCH cheaper then anything else I have.

Like you said, if I am down 31 rounds of JHP and have spent the time grabbing the third mag or worse yet had to reload a mag with the back up truncated cone rounds, I am way past caring about over-penetration etc.
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Greg
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by Greg »

rightisright wrote:
HTRN wrote:
Greg wrote:(I don't think there's anything in NJ you're allowed to hunt with HP's)
Is there any commercial shotgun ammo with HPs?
A quick check of my shotgun ammo stock shows 12 gauge HP in Winchester, Federal and Remington. I'm sure there are others.
Well, learn something new every day. Thinking of the usual Brenneke and Foster slugs, I'm not sure how you would even *try* to make those hollowpoint.
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MarkD
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by MarkD »

I've heard you're better off with fmj in the smaller cartridges like 32 or 25, or SWC for standard pressure 38 special. The idea being if it expands you won't get enough penetration. I doubt that's an issue for 45/or 9 mm.
rightisright
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by rightisright »

Greg wrote:
rightisright wrote:
HTRN wrote: Is there any commercial shotgun ammo with HPs?
A quick check of my shotgun ammo stock shows 12 gauge HP in Winchester, Federal and Remington. I'm sure there are others.
Well, learn something new every day. Thinking of the usual Brenneke and Foster slugs, I'm not sure how you would even *try* to make those hollowpoint.

Quite honestly, I can not attest to their efficacy. The "hollow point" is just a small dimple. It could just be a marketing ploy. I bought them for self-defense stock. At that distance, I doubt it would make a difference either way.

Most of my buddies who hunt deer/bear use a shotty w. rifled barrel and sabots.
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PawPaw
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by PawPaw »

MarkD wrote:I've heard you're better off with fmj in the smaller cartridges like 32 or 25, or SWC for standard pressure 38 special. The idea being if it expands you won't get enough penetration. I doubt that's an issue for 45/or 9 mm.
Surprisingly, Buffalo Bore makes SD ammo for the old .32 SW. I own some because my lady wanted a .32 revolver for her car revolver, and was very specific that it had to be a .32, it had to be a revolver, and it had to be silver in color. So, I commenced a search to find her revolver, and to give her the best odds if she had to use it.

After several months of searching, I found her revolver, a Colt Pocket Positive, chromed like a Chevy bumper, and when I showed it to her, she fell in love with it. Turns out, it's exactly like a revolver her father carried

Image

That's her revolver, so I cast about for suitable ammo and found that Buffalo Bore makes it. It's basically a hard-cast wadcutter that they load to about 850 fps, with modern powders to keep the pressure curve so that the older revolvers can take it. From the link above:
In order to make this cartridge meaningful for self defense, we designed hard cast (not soft) bullets that will not deform on impact and will maintain their flat nose profile as they penetrate through muscle and bone and because of their flat nose, they crush (not slip and slide) through mammalian tissues, doing considerable damage along their path. We alloy and lube these bullets properly so they will NOT substantially lead foul any normal barrel. Then we added velocity by using modern powders that will give extra velocity and remain within the SAAMI pressure limits of 15,000 PSI. The result is a fairly lethal cartridge that brings new usefulness to millions of these old pistols. Depending on how much clothing must be penetrated and how much bone is encountered, expect 17 to 23 inches of straight line penetration in mammalian tissue with this load. At 100grs., this bullet is the same weight as other current weak factory offerings, but is going around 200 fps faster than any other commercial load we could find that utilize 100gr. bullets. This particular load, utilizing a full wad cutter profile bullet, is the load I would carry for defense against humans as that big flat nose does considerable terminal damage.
So, yeah, while the .32 SW long isn't my first choice, it's HER first choice and that makes a difference to me. She loves her little shiny revolver, and if that makes her more likely to have it available, I'm okay with it.
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First Shirt
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Re: In Defense Of FMJ .45acp For Self Defense/CCW

Post by First Shirt »

I'm really fond of the Lee 230 gr. TC bullet, sort of a semi-wadcutter, but not quite. On those occasions when I carry a 1911 while hunting hogs, it's the load of choice, since it doesn't expand for crap, even at 850-900 fps, but it does dig a nice, deep, hole.
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
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