585 HE -- Cases In Production --

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hubel585
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:56 am

585 HE ---Tested Super Strong --

If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen
our 585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels
of cases and more coming.

We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr
bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also
for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found
that some of 440gr- 540gr 58cal Minie bullets work great

First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall
loaded length as a Gibbs. Holds up to 190gr ball powder
under bullets...

Next pic is a barrel of cases..

Third representative of types of guns we have it in.Ed

Image.

Image.

Image.

AND We get asked about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads,
can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...And moderate
loads still much faster than 577NE. And can be had without costing a
years pay. Most local users(only 1 in 10000 hunters go Africa) can
shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for about 95 cents each,
once you have cases. Great for target fun, hogs, deer, etc... Cases
last forever. We can load to any power level we need or want.
Folks can get 100 cases, dies, barrel to put in something, 750 bucks.

Asked about #1, And perfect case for the Ruger #1.
The few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve
metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s
extractors I've seen work better with belted than big rimmed.
Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.Ed

Image

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Aglifter
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by Aglifter » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:22 pm

So, has SafariKid built an ultralight version yet?

Y'all are some twisted folks...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto

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HTRN
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by HTRN » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:51 pm

So Hubel, who did you get to draw the cases? With Jamison gone due to divorce, and the only alternative being either Dieter Hornerber(very good brass, but $$$,and takes forever to get due to his small scale operation and the fact that he's in Germany..) or Bertram(meh quality wise, pricey, and takes time because they're in Australia), I'm curious if you found somebody who does "good, fast and cheap"...
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:08 am

I got them done at Bertram and they cost the least there and
are perfect quality.3 barrels of them and a few more soon as we go
along, later this winter. Takes super high pressure fine.

He now makes nearly all new Cheytac/Gibbs cases in the world, and our
case is made in the same run as those. Using same brass cups, same set
of cup draws, and just uses different header(belted) and bunter for the last
forming operations. Then different form die and trim length.
And if Gibbs needed he uses different other ones for that.
He is doing hundred thousand a month of basic draws for all three cases.
Our case base ahead of our belt is same as Cheytac/Gibbs.
Our case takes same high pressures as the others.
I tested to over near 70k psi and cases hardly expanded.

As for light guns I got one, it is the one on FBW falling block with
a pistol grip only stock, and lighter barrel. Don't know if the
Kid would fire it at only 6 lbs.Ed

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:49 am

Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked
needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are
about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..

Image

The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE in them.

Image

Image

Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super
high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses
a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
These are not balloon head junk cases.

Image

We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
Reamer specs all set and the chambers made with them, the cases
extract at the highest pressures.
Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed

Image

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HTRN
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by HTRN » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:07 am

You know, this will probably mag feed in a CZ 550 Rigby action. Another possibility is the Montana 1999 African action both are under 1200bucks, the CZ significantly so...

Hurm..
Last edited by HTRN on Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:00 pm

Yes the CZ 550 and MRC PH set up for Gibbs
will feed it ok. Most others a simple singlestack
internal mag I made will do, and feeds perfect.
Like enfield, magnum mauser, BBK, etc.Ed

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:06 pm

WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.

First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is
4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
them and put their own stamp on..

Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.

Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others
behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge.
Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.

Image

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Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr
wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed

Image

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:17 am

In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.

We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.

Image

Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns,
without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..

Image

And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much
harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper strength.
because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
no extraction problems.

Image

Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.

Image

hubel585
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:16 am

Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases
from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy
in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.

We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.

Image

WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies.
Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.

Image

We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also
and there is video on ytube-- URL below-- Ed

Image



www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypaUdwQGAc

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