Alias Training Implodes

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Netpackrat
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Alias Training Implodes

Post by Netpackrat »

http://soldiersystems.net/2016/07/11/th ... -services/
The Demise Of Alias Training & Security Services

Late Sunday night, several well known tactical trainers announced they were cutting ties with Alias Training & Security Services. Mike Pannone posted an announcement on Facebook which included other Alias instructors Pat McNamara, Jeff Gonzales and Craig Douglas, stating all were moving on. Additionally, Larry Vickers announced a move to the newly formed Aztec Training Services.
AlaskaTRX and I were fully paid for a Pat McNamara class at the end of this month here in Alaska, and we got an email from Pat this morning announcing that he and several other instructors were severing ties with Alias due to non-payment of instructor fees. And that we should contact Alias to seek a refund. From what I have read elsewhere, some of the instructors were owed 5 figure amounts which they have given up hope of ever seeing. I've got claims in through Paypal and my credit card company, but I am pretty sure we are just out the money at this point.

For all of his faults, Larry Vickers has announced that he will be going forward with his classes, and honoring fees already paid to Alias, which is very big of him. Haven't heard anything about any of the other instructors following suit yet, and don't expect to. Pat Mac wants to try to salvage the Alaska classes, but we can't really afford to pay twice for the same class, so I expect that will be the end of it.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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Termite
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by Termite »

Del,

If Paypal doesn't give you satisfaction, you can do a charge-back for the fees thru your credit card company; assuming it was a credit card, and not a debit card. (I figure you already know this)

Best of luck.
Worse comes to worse, you could just not pay that part of your card bill, but it may ding your credit rating.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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Netpackrat
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by Netpackrat »

We each got credited the second half of our course fees by our credit card provider, subject to possible dispute by Alias. We both received an email this afternoon from the course host, who is trying to get enough people to commit to attending, to salvage the course. We would have to pay in full by cash or check at the beginning of the first day, taking the total cost for us (including what we paid to Alias and haven't got back) to $760 plus for a two day course. OTOH, not taking the course isn't going to affect whether we get our original deposits back one way or the other.

Sounds like my brother is out barring either getting his deposit back first, or being offered a credit for it (like Larry Vickers is doing for his students), neither of which it sounds like will happen. I am on the fence... I am still pissed, but it's hard enough to begin with to get a first tier trainer up here, and I don't want to miss the opportunity. It's not Mac's fault that Paul Hotaling/Alias turned out to be a crook, but on the other hand I don't think it's fair that the students bear the full cost of salvaging the class on top of what we have already paid.

I told the guy I would let him know one way or the other by tomorrow. But now I can add not being able to do this with my brother to the list of reasons I am pissed off about this. In addition to having roped him into it in the first place, and cost him money. This is the second time I've talked him into signing up for gun school, only to have the course fall apart. Last one was through another organization, which was cancelled due to lack of students (because they did little to promote it) and the host was AWOL, but at least we got all our money back for that one.

Edit to add: The host says Mac hasn't been paid by Alias for the last two courses he taught through them. He and several other trainers are owed 5 figure amounts, which they are unlikely to ever see. So while I would like to see them honor course fees paid to Alias, that's probably not reasonable to expect.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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Denis
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by Denis »

The mind boggles. One would think that swindling a bunch of known armed people would suggest itself as a losing proposition... in less "civilised" parts of the world, such shenanigans are likely to end up with someone dead in a ditch.
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Termite
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by Termite »

Del,

What particuliar course were ya'll going to take? Handgun, rifle, etc?

A course at Thunder Ranch has been on my "bucket list" for a long time.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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First Shirt
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by First Shirt »

I'd love to take a Thunder Ranch or Gunsite class, it's just a matter of coming up with the necessary funding, time off work, and spare ammo.
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Lindy Cooper Wisdom
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Netpackrat
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Re: Alias Training Implodes

Post by Netpackrat »

Termite wrote:Del,

What particuliar course were ya'll going to take? Handgun, rifle, etc?

A course at Thunder Ranch has been on my "bucket list" for a long time.
A two day rifle/pistol class taught by Pat McNamara. I told the host Wednesday morning before I went camping that I was out, but I returned home this evening to a new email saying that the price for the course was being dropped. So I am reconsidering again.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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