Saurez: REVERSE GRIP KNIFE FIGHTING

[BobTheWitch]

While I bow to those with application experience,
my training and practice leads me to worry that people have learned the wrong lesson from the 21 ft rule.

The lesson was about taking initiative, and how much distance someone can cover while you are RE-acting. Knife, Gun, Stick, the weapon isn't the key, the key is in reading the opponent's intent and intercepting his action before he can take the initiative. Attacking first or getting there first. Whenever you are re-acting, you are in trouble.

[Combat Controller]

I won't go into my standard rant about knife fighting or knife fighting schools, or my favorite sub topic, fighting knife design as you have all heard it before. Just as long as we all realize that knives (in the hands of a bad guy) are primarily ambush weapons and you won't get in a fencing match with one 99.99% of the time.

[Aaron]

The seven yard rule is one of the most often touted and least understood statistics one encounters when conversing on self defense.

I've actually seen the videos of the, many, tests performed and read the reports of the researchers involved. The results were formulated using a cross section of police officers, although most tended to be younger just like in a P.D., who were standing at an attentive ease and then the attacker would randomly run at them with a knife. The distance started out further out, don't remember, and moved in closer with each round of tests, seven yards was the point where the attacker began to be able to strike successfully more than half the time.

It was still far from a sure thing. There were a couple officers the attacker wasn't able to close with. These were the guys who, one, drew much faster, like they actually practiced, and two, moved while drawing instead of just standing there.

So, within twenty-one feet, a knife armed attacker has the advantage, against the average cop, as long as he already has his knife out.

Watching those cops draw, I can't but think my own parents, who only just got into firearms and started training with them, would have fared better than most of those cops.

As for actual knife fighting, I hate, hate, hate it. Which is probably why I was always attentive during what little training I had with them and will likely take more at some point. I tend to favor a fore-handed grip as it's easier to strike where you intend to. The only time I've ever used a knife in anger, I used a reverse grip and my knife left with the EMTs, lodged in my attackers shoulder having failed to incapacitate him.

[randy]

Another key lesson of the Tueller drill is being able to articulate why the aggressive guy "who only has a knife" (or club, or rock) and standing "way over there" (21 feet or so) is enough of a threat to justify using a firearm in defense.

[Nicodemus]

Those who utterly reject reverse grip are just as much fools, as those who say it should always be used.

It is very useful as a retention grip, especially in very close. It gives greater power to pulling strokes, allows for better punching strokes, and is the most powerful non lunging thrust.

Also if you practice bladed fist fighting styles, it can be remarkably effective, especially against an unarmed opponent. In this it is also quite easy to conceal a knife up to around 4 inches in length, until you have already closed into contact range. That is utterly devastating.

It also takes away a very useful amount of range, brings you in close to harm, and requires body aspects with more exposure to cuts from your opponent.

Advantages and disadvantages to both, as I said.

However, I would not choose reverse as your primary knif fighting stance, if it came down to a knife fight.

Exactly, neither is better than the other they each have advantages in different circumstances.

In training knife fighting and knife defense one thing that I would point out is that the fighting "style" of the person is going to affect the usefulness of the grip as well.

The standard grip is faster and slashes better. (the common "stab not slash" is only marginally sound advice for someone with no experience in knife fighting.) A lot of people don't realize that knife fighting slashes are typically the entire length of the surface of the section of the body contacted and an inch or more deep depending on the mass of the target.

The reverse grip is more useful for a practitioner more inclined close the distance and work from clench range anyway. The fighting styles that utilize this range to deal damage are typically heavy in forearm contact for controlling the opponent and since it would be reflexive for the practitioner to use what they already do best the reverse grip allows them to get to work without much modification in consideration of the knife. And as Chris pointed out retention is much better and power through leverage is much greater as well however the knife is not a power weapon it is a speed weapon so emphasis on delivering as much force as possible with each contact gives you diminishing return while focusing on speed and flow to increase the amount of times the weapon contacts the target is not.

Holding the knife in a reverse grip with the blade in toward the forearm intentionally instead of out creates unnecessary risk as the blade is up against the portion of the arm that has the most blood flow and muscle tissue and training to pull a knife towards you with force under stress repeatedly (negative stroke focused) is like training to draw with the finger already on the trigger IMO. This kind of strikes me as a desire to come up with a "new way to do something for the sake of having a new way" to me.

[Catbird]

Lawdog on knife fighting.

I have a bit of a love for push knives.

Also called push daggers, punch daggers or punch knives, these simple, elegant, no-nonsense little dudes are one of the few "fighting knife" designs which is actually a dedicated fighter, rather than simply being a knife that you can use for fighting.

I was introduced to these charming jewels way back In The Day when I was studying a combination of Western boxing and judo. My instructor had asked me if there was anything that I felt needed to be covered.

Having dealt with the sharp-and-pointy kind of social interaction a time or two, I opined that it wouldn't hurt to cover some fundamentals of knife-fighting. My instructor pondered this a moment, then went into his office.

Coming out, he handed me a Cold Steel Defender -- which I still own, by-the-by -- then assumed the high boxing guard he favoured. I mirrored him, knife in paw, and he smiled and said, "There. Now you are a knife fighter."

Heh.

[peter1]

Thanks for the information regarding knives. I only owned hibben knife

[workinwifdakids]

Welcome to the mix, Peter.

[SeekHer]

Thanks for the information regarding knives. I only owned hibben knife

Welcome to the forum...Hope you have notification on so you know that there are postings for you...

The link you provided shows the #VW-GH5001 Hibben HTF Recon, Wood Handle, Plain on sale for $55.00 from $91.99 regular...That is a great knife when the late, great Elmer Kieth designed it for his ideal hunting knife but I don't believe that Hibben was the original designer/maker but can't remember for sure...