New German frigate is in bad shape

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Steamforger
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New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby Steamforger » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:36 pm

Article.

From the article, it sounds like Germany's procurement programs are in worse shape than our own. Kind of refreshing, but being 2nd in a race to the bottom is never a good thing. We're at least able to deliver, even if the program is severely flawed (LCS anyone?)

Some high points from the article-
The naval fiasco, on a project with a €3 billion price tag, is particularly startling since Europe’s largest exporter relies on open and secure shipping lanes to transport its goods.


After the ship failed sea trials last month, naval officials refused to commission it. The German Navy said the Baden-Württemberg’s central computer system—the design centerpiece allowing it to sail with a smaller crew—didn’t pass necessary tests....has reported problems with its radar, electronics and the flameproof coating on its fuel tanks. The vessel was also found to list to the starboard, a flaw a project spokesman says has been corrected. The Baden-Württemberg is now set to return to port next week for an “extended period,” the navy said.

the military procurement office said it was levying financial penalties from Thyssenkrupp for late delivery, but he declined to provide further details.


It lacks its predecessor’s sonar and torpedo tubes, making it a sitting duck for submarines.
Hard to imagine the Germans completely ignoring undersea warfare.

“Too complicated, too ambitious, too badly managed.” Marcel Dickow, a weapons-procurement expert at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin, said of the frigate. “They threw money at the project without thinking it through.”


”There’s a whole generation of German engineers who haven’t worked on a major defense project,” said Mr. Mölling, the defense expert. “It’s not that they lost this skill; they never learned it.” Engineering graduates shun weapons manufacturers in favor of “sexier” employers like conglomerate Siemens AG or car maker BMW AG, which offer better pay and career prospects, according to Mr. Mölling.


Berlin could have bought warships from U.S., U.K. or French shipyards, but the government chose German bidders to buoy employment at German shipyards, according to Ms. Kempin, the defense expert.
There's that famous German protectionism at work for them.

It's going to be interesting to see this one play out. It'll probably go back to the yard, they'll lower the specs, it'll end up heavier and less capable and everyone will call it a solid win.

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Vonz90
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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:11 pm

I will not fault them for buying local for weapons- there is a lot of very good reasons to do that, which is why we do it too.

The biggest problem they have with it is the same one we have with the LCS platform; attempting to trade crew size for automation. It just does not work or something of this complexity as everyone is finding out - but it looks attractive to the bean counters.

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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby randy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 pm

Vonz90 wrote: The biggest problem they have with it is the same one we have with the LCS platform; attempting to trade crew size for automation. It just does not work or something of this complexity as everyone is finding out....


And that's just for normal peace time operations. Throw in battle damage and damage control while trying stay in the fight...
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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby BDK » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:42 pm

It makes sense, to me, if you could mass-produce them. EG, go back to actually thinking about making weapons of war, rather than the toy show pieces.

The F-22/other toys the west is building these days, seem like the giant Spanish ships, of the era of the Armada.

Cheap, fast to build, and easily mass-produced (and the capacity to produce them), have to be requirements of a weapon.

Of course, these days, I suppose the various powers might just be dancing around/looking for stuff to help deal with barbarians, while they wait for drone technology to turn China/maybe Europe into the primary military power.

(Our tax bill could have helped US manufacturing and defense, but its most meaningless BS, as its not permanent, and its not a real, decisive, blow against DC forcing us all into bondage to Wall St.)

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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby HTRN » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:50 pm

BDK wrote:The F-22/other toys the west is building these days, seem like the giant Spanish ships, of the era of the Armada.

In every wargame its participated in, the raptor has been a full on raep machine.
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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby BDK » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:02 pm

They can build what, 1 every 8 weeks? At how many million?

It may be a useful policing tool, but I think if you start throwing equivalent dollars of drones at it, it looses, and those drones can be mass produced

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Re: New German frigate is in bad shape

Postby HTRN » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:21 am

BDK wrote:They can build what, 1 every 8 weeks? At how many million?

It may be a useful policing tool, but I think if you start throwing equivalent dollars of drones at it, it looses, and those drones can be mass produced

He who control the high ground, controls the battlefield, if you cant stop the US from achieving air superiority, or wresting it from them, you lose. Care to guess how many countries have drones that can go toe to toe with US airpower and stand a more a slim chance of winning? Zero. Virtually all drones built today are for ovservation, or ground attack/support. The one mation whos in the lead for developing something remotely successful at air combat is.. The United States of America.
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