Top 10 Main Battle Tanks

[HTRN]

The Challenger is too heavy for it's powerplant (typical British design) so whatever the production numbers (even less than the LeClerc), it fails..

The power plant issue is one of the two makjor complaints about it, its two slow, and it has horrible reliability, because its underpowered. Theres also doznes of minor design defects ive heard complained about them online from people who have first hand experience with them.

[randy]

Asian Pride. That's why.

That and a couple of others

1. The growing realization that the US may not always be willing to be there depending on who's in office during a crisis and how much they are willing piss off the Russians or PRC. Having a domestic capability gives them a back up and maybe some leverage.

2. I'm not familiar with the actual specs of the ROK and JSDF tanks, but I know in the late 80's early 90's there was discussion of producing units tailored for their specific environments (average carry capacity of their bridges, railway stock, terrain etc.) vs units designed to operate world wide with a US logistical and engineering capacity to back them up.

3. Again, going back to the 80's, the possibility of an export market for countries wanting something without the strings (let alone price) that came attached with US or Soviet/Russian designs. Don't know if that still is a factor.

[Greg]

Asian Pride. That's why.

That and a couple of others

1. The growing realization that the US may not always be willing to be there depending on who's in office during a crisis and how much they are willing piss off the Russians or PRC. Having a domestic capability gives them a back up and maybe some leverage.

2. I'm not familiar with the actual specs of the ROK and JSDF tanks, but I know in the late 80's early 90's there was discussion of producing units tailored for their specific environments (average carry capacity of their bridges, railway stock, terrain etc.) vs units designed to operate world wide with a US logistical and engineering capacity to back them up.

3. Again, going back to the 80's, the possibility of an export market for countries wanting something without the strings (let alone price) that came attached with US or Soviet/Russian designs. Don't know if that still is a factor.

Also the Japanese use the defense budget explicitly as a jobs program.

[Greg]

Also need to look at number produced. 100 Korean tanks make those about as common as Bugatti Veyron roadsters. Even if you are an active duty cavalryman, you have a better chance of seeing a Veyron in the parking lot at a shopping mall than meeting a Korean K2 Black Panther tank on the battlefield.

My top 5 list would be:
Leopard 2 Mk 7
Abrams M1A2/A3
Whatever the Russians are using for their latest MBT
Whatever the Chinese are using for their latest MBT
LeClerc (not really enough production volume to make the list, but it's a pretty good tank on paper)

The Challenger is too heavy for it's powerplant (typical British design) so whatever the production numbers (even less than the LeClerc), it fails.

After that, I don't care. I'm not sure why the Koreans and Japanese bother with building their own tanks. Their numbers are so small, it's like the 1960's Swiss tanks (about 200 beautifully produced, overpriced tanks). After that disaster, the Swiss got smart and bought Leopard 2s.

Numbers are a problem with every one listed. Iirc, Germany is down to around 200 Leopards in service.

[D5CAV]

Also need to look at number produced. 100 Korean tanks make those about as common as Bugatti Veyron roadsters. Even if you are an active duty cavalryman, you have a better chance of seeing a Veyron in the parking lot at a shopping mall than meeting a Korean K2 Black Panther tank on the battlefield.

My top 5 list would be:
Leopard 2 Mk 7
Abrams M1A2/A3
Whatever the Russians are using for their latest MBT
Whatever the Chinese are using for their latest MBT
LeClerc (not really enough production volume to make the list, but it's a pretty good tank on paper)

The Challenger is too heavy for it's powerplant (typical British design) so whatever the production numbers (even less than the LeClerc), it fails.

After that, I don't care. I'm not sure why the Koreans and Japanese bother with building their own tanks. Their numbers are so small, it's like the 1960's Swiss tanks (about 200 beautifully produced, overpriced tanks). After that disaster, the Swiss got smart and bought Leopard 2s.

Numbers are a problem with every one listed. Iirc, Germany is down to around 200 Leopards in service.

I don't know the numbers on Russian and Chinese tanks, but the US Army bought about a thousand M1A1s and almost as many M1A2s. M1A3 numbers may be in the 200 range. I don't know.

Same with the Leopard 2s. There are a couple of thousand that have been built, including several hundred of the very popular and very good Mark 5 model. Mark 7s may only be in the low hundreds range, and the HEER may indeed be down to a couple of hundred Mark 5s and Mark 7s.

LeClerc production numbers are certainly not more than the few-hundred range. I don't think they were fielded by anyone besides the French.

[Vonz90]

Also need to look at number produced. 100 Korean tanks make those about as common as Bugatti Veyron roadsters. Even if you are an active duty cavalryman, you have a better chance of seeing a Veyron in the parking lot at a shopping mall than meeting a Korean K2 Black Panther tank on the battlefield.

My top 5 list would be:
Leopard 2 Mk 7
Abrams M1A2/A3
Whatever the Russians are using for their latest MBT
Whatever the Chinese are using for their latest MBT
LeClerc (not really enough production volume to make the list, but it's a pretty good tank on paper)

The Challenger is too heavy for it's powerplant (typical British design) so whatever the production numbers (even less than the LeClerc), it fails.

After that, I don't care. I'm not sure why the Koreans and Japanese bother with building their own tanks. Their numbers are so small, it's like the 1960's Swiss tanks (about 200 beautifully produced, overpriced tanks). After that disaster, the Swiss got smart and bought Leopard 2s.

Numbers are a problem with every one listed. Iirc, Germany is down to around 200 Leopards in service.

I don't know the numbers on Russian and Chinese tanks, but the US Army bought about a thousand M1A1s and almost as many M1A2s. M1A3 numbers may be in the 200 range. I don't know.

Same with the Leopard 2s. There are a couple of thousand that have been built, including several hundred of the very popular and very good Mark 5 model. Mark 7s may only be in the low hundreds range, and the HEER may indeed be down to a couple of hundred Mark 5s and Mark 7s.

LeClerc production numbers are certainly not more than the few-hundred range. I don't think they were fielded by anyone besides the French.

UAE bought a few hundred Leclerc tanks but with the drive trains from the Leopard.

It was in the news that the Heer bought back like 200 Leopards but I am not sure if they are in service yet.

[slowpoke]

Asian Pride. That's why.

That and a couple of others

1. The growing realization that the US may not always be willing to be there depending on who's in office during a crisis and how much they are willing piss off the Russians or PRC. Having a domestic capability gives them a back up and maybe some leverage.

2. I'm not familiar with the actual specs of the ROK and JSDF tanks, but I know in the late 80's early 90's there was discussion of producing units tailored for their specific environments (average carry capacity of their bridges, railway stock, terrain etc.) vs units designed to operate world wide with a US logistical and engineering capacity to back them up.

3. Again, going back to the 80's, the possibility of an export market for countries wanting something without the strings (let alone price) that came attached with US or Soviet/Russian designs. Don't know if that still is a factor.

Also the Japanese use the defense budget explicitly as a jobs program.

So no different than the US?

[Greg]

That and a couple of others

1. The growing realization that the US may not always be willing to be there depending on who's in office during a crisis and how much they are willing piss off the Russians or PRC. Having a domestic capability gives them a back up and maybe some leverage.

2. I'm not familiar with the actual specs of the ROK and JSDF tanks, but I know in the late 80's early 90's there was discussion of producing units tailored for their specific environments (average carry capacity of their bridges, railway stock, terrain etc.) vs units designed to operate world wide with a US logistical and engineering capacity to back them up.

3. Again, going back to the 80's, the possibility of an export market for countries wanting something without the strings (let alone price) that came attached with US or Soviet/Russian designs. Don't know if that still is a factor.

Also the Japanese use the defense budget explicitly as a jobs program.

So no different than the US?

No, they're far worse about it than we are.

[Jericho941]

Knowing you'll probably never have to use your hardware for real makes it really easy to gold plate everything.

[toad]

I'm thinking about an old story about a Canadian units encounter with Abrams during a training exercise in Germany back in the day. The thing that stuck with me is that the Canadian said he could not hear the Abrams because of their quieter turbine engines and got surprised when they popped out of the trees on his flank.
So the big problem these days for a tank may be trying to hide from all the AI weaponry that is in the air and in space. Not a problem so much with third world armies but if it is ever peer or near peer combat things could get nasty.
I guess tanks are going to have to get more active defenses and have drones of their own out to keep AI bombs and artillery shells off of them