Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

[Jered]

The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".

They got the guns from the French, though.

[Jericho941]

The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".

They got the guns from the French, though.

Likely the Shermans themselves, too, IIRC. Most postwar French armor was either American or captured/surrendered German.

[D5CAV]

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".

They got the guns from the French, though.

Likely the Shermans themselves, too...

Nope. They already had the Shermans. The Israelis had already changed out the rotary gas engines to diesels, and had gone through a couple of iterations trying out higher velocity guns.

By the 1950s, the French were trying to sell the Israelis AMX 10s. The Israelis didn't like the (lack of) armor on the AMX 10, but they ended up buying the French 105mm rifle and squeezing it into their Shermans.

I've seen that gun, although I haven't fired it. It was on the AMX 30 and on the later marks of the AMX 10. It's a little lower velocity than the Sheffield 105mm rifles we had in our M1s, but it was shorter and lighter. Pretty good "bang for the buck" if you pardon the pun.

The lack of real estate in the Sherman turret, even after the Israelis added the bustle, meant that little 105mm didn't have much vertical swing, but the Israelis managed to turn their Shermans into pretty effective T54 killers.

I don't know where the Israelis originally got their Shermans, but I suspect they were bought for scrap and shipped to Haifa as scrap steel from Jersey City in the late 1940s or early 1950s. Most Shermans ended up as Buicks and Fords after WW2, anyway. Back in the bad old days of the Truman and Eisenhower administrations, the ATF wasn't quite so anal about making sure any surplus military hardware had all the breech blocks and trunnions properly torch cut into little pieces.

Also, Eisenhower was too smart to take sides in the middle east. If any Shermans were gifts of the US, I'm sure Eisenhower made sure his fingerprints weren't on them.

[Cybrludite]

I don't know where the Israelis originally got their Shermans, but I suspect they were bought for scrap and shipped to Haifa as scrap steel from Jersey City in the late 1940s or early 1950s. Most Shermans ended up as Buicks and Fords after WW2, anyway. Back in the bad old days of the Truman and Eisenhower administrations, the ATF wasn't quite so anal about making sure any surplus military hardware had all the breech blocks and trunnions properly torch cut into little pieces.

Also, Eisenhower was too smart to take sides in the middle east. If any Shermans were gifts of the US, I'm sure Eisenhower made sure his fingerprints weren't on them.

Pretty sure the Israeli Shermans were Brit & French surplus. I seem to recall them having Sherman Fireflys with the 17lb. gun in service for a while.

[SoupOrMan]

Yeah, the M3 could get really chaotic in a hurry.

"The 75mm main gun is firing. The 37mm secondary gun is firing, but it’s traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying, ‘Driver advance’ on the A set, but the driver – who can’t hear me – is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret, and see 12 enemy, just 50 yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
-Lt. Ken Giles

And at no point is he shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" which is kind of sad in a way.

[D5CAV]

Yugoslavia still had Shermans into the 1970s. That's why Clint was able to use them for "Kelly's Heroes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4lVoCFZvk

A much more realistic depiction of Shermans than the Brad Pitt movie, IMHO.

[Jericho941]

Yugoslavia still had Shermans into the 1970s. That's why Clint was able to use them for "Kelly's Heroes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4lVoCFZvk

A much more realistic depiction of Shermans than the Brad Pitt movie, IMHO.

What part, the jury-rigged PA system, the fake "90mm" extension (when the Brits were camoflaging their Firefly barrels to make them less of a target), or the paint rounds?

[D5CAV]

To begin with, the three Sherman's in Kelly's Heroes look the same. Same Mark, same configuration, same gun, same well used paint, etc.

In Fury, they had different guns, different paint, different configurations, etc. No unit would have such different vehicles. Maintenance, ammo compatibility, etc. would all be issues in a combat setting.

Kelly's Heroes also gave more of a sense of the claustrophobic nature of a tank

besides, the Fury Sherman's were too clean. Underneath the superficial mud the director splashed on them, you could see they were kept in spotless garages, next to the polished Ferrari.

[Greg]

To begin with, the three Sherman's in Kelly's Heroes look the same. Same Mark, same configuration, same gun, same well used paint, etc.

In Fury, they had different guns, different paint, different configurations, etc. No unit would have such different vehicles. Maintenance, ammo compatibility, etc. would all be issues in a combat setting.

Kelly's Heroes also gave more of a sense of the claustrophobic nature of a tank

besides, the Fury Sherman's were too clean. Underneath the superficial mud the director splashed on them, you could see they were kept in spotless garages, next to the polished Ferrari.

Except real units weren't always uniform in their equipment. Jumbo's especially were specialist items that a unit might have only a few of. Other differences, well you use what you can get.

[HTRN]

Yeah, the M3 could get really chaotic in a hurry.

"The 75mm main gun is firing. The 37mm secondary gun is firing, but it’s traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying, ‘Driver advance’ on the A set, but the driver – who can’t hear me – is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret, and see 12 enemy, just 50 yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
-Lt. Ken Giles

And at no point is he shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" which is kind of sad in a way.

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