Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

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Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby randy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:40 pm

Just thought this was interesting:

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby g-man » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:29 pm

Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby PawPaw » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:27 pm

That's cool, although I can't imagine why they would need tanks, but I admit I'm ignorant of Paraguay's military posture or threats.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:48 pm

g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...


The tank is a relative bargain at a quarter mil, but being in Oklahoma the G4 stuff will kill ya. ;)
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jered » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:26 am

The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby NVGdude » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:28 am

They appear to be using them as trainers,

People use all sorts of old crap as trainers, the USAF still uses H model Hueys for their primary rotorwing trainer after all. When did those start coming off the assembly line? 1966?

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby g-man » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:08 am

Their entire army is smaller than the average U.S. division, and have only a handful of armored vehicles, all of which could be driven through by the Chieftain, much less an Abrams. I think it was mentioned when the Chieftain was previously for sale that with that one tank you could take on pretty much any 3rd world Army and fare pretty well. Still, I think it's pretty cool that they're still rolling get the Shermans.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jericho941 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:49 am

Uruguay's still using the M24 Chaffee.

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:03 am

g-man wrote:Their entire army is smaller than the average U.S. division, and have only a handful of armored vehicles, all of which could be driven through by the Chieftain, much less an Abrams. I think it was mentioned when the Chieftain was previously for sale that with that one tank you could take on pretty much any 3rd world Army and fare pretty well. Still, I think it's pretty cool that they're still rolling get the Shermans.


Hey Costa Rica doesn't have an army at all. No need to worry about a coup....

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:25 am

g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...

I was at the auction when the hammer came down on that very same Chieftain for a little over $100k.

The real deal, if I had the money, was the Leopard 2 with live gun and two power packs that sold for about $200k.

At that very same auction, the Sherman tanks sold for between $500k and $1 million.

Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:33 am

Jered wrote:The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:38 am

PawPaw wrote:That's cool, although I can't imagine why they would need tanks...

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby PawPaw » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:13 pm

D5CAV wrote:
PawPaw wrote:That's cool, although I can't imagine why they would need tanks...

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby slowpoke » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:52 pm

D5CAV wrote:
g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...

I was at the auction when the hammer came down on that very same Chieftain for a little over $100k.

The real deal, if I had the money, was the Leopard 2 with live gun and two power packs that sold for about $200k.

At that very same auction, the Sherman tanks sold for between $500k and $1 million.

Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.

You can get refurbed t72s from the Czechs for the price of a luxury car. Figure the leopards have more maintanence needs.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby toad » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:36 pm

slowpoke wrote:
D5CAV wrote:
g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...

I was at the auction when the hammer came down on that very same Chieftain for a little over $100k.

The real deal, if I had the money, was the Leopard 2 with live gun and two power packs that sold for about $200k.

At that very same auction, the Sherman tanks sold for between $500k and $1 million.

Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.

You can get refurbed t72s from the Czechs for the price of a luxury car. Figure the leopards have more maintanence needs.

It could be a wash as far as maintenance goes. The Russians designed with the philosophy that they would do limited field maintenance and if a tank was down they move it back to a moveable depot that would have the cranes needed to pull the turret to so they could get at the engine. The depot would also have a stock of parts. Also the T-72's had an auto-loader which adds to the complexity.
The Leopard 2 needs a trailer for the German instruction manuals :twisted:
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby JAG2955 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:39 pm

toad wrote:
slowpoke wrote:
D5CAV wrote:
g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...

I was at the auction when the hammer came down on that very same Chieftain for a little over $100k.

The real deal, if I had the money, was the Leopard 2 with live gun and two power packs that sold for about $200k.

At that very same auction, the Sherman tanks sold for between $500k and $1 million.

Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.

You can get refurbed t72s from the Czechs for the price of a luxury car. Figure the leopards have more maintanence needs.

It could be a wash as far as maintenance goes. The Russians designed with the philosophy that they would do limited field maintenance and if a tank was down they move it back to a moveable depot that would have the cranes needed to pull the turret to so they could get at the engine. The depot would also have a stock of parts. Also the T-72's had an auto-loader which adds to the complexity.
The Leopard 2 needs a trailer for the German instruction manuals :twisted:
"You vill use the 0.2 kilogram hammer on the v-847.09 nut remover until a full turn es done then you will use the k-457.021A 21mm wrench to completely remove the nut which you vill place in the organizational board (zIV-mine got) in the spot identified for it."


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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jericho941 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:43 pm

If on my own dime, I wouldn't wanna play with anything German bigger or more recent than a Panzer IV or StuG III.

I wouldn't buy anything Russian pretty much ever.

M4A3E8? Now that's the goal. :mrgreen:

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby randy » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:46 pm

toad wrote: Also the T-72's had an auto-loader which adds to the complexity.


The joke back in the 80's was that the Red Army Choir had a large group of one armed sopranos who were former T-72 gunners.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:26 am

D5CAV wrote:Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.

This. There is or was, until fairly recently a large glut of let's on the market, with various your open militaries downsizing due to budget cuts. The 2a6 version takes second place only to the latest and greatest version of the Abrams, ND could probably be had for under a million a unit. Add in a panzer 2000 for mobile artillery and you've got something to even make uncle Sam a bit nervous about fighting.

But this would involve, you know forethought, and not giving in to massive amountso of graft and corruption involved in the funds.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:41 am

HTRN wrote:
D5CAV wrote:Paraguay should sell their WW2 era tanks for big $$$s to collectors and buy some of the surplus Leopard 2's floating around the global arms market.

This. There is or was, until fairly recently a large glut of let's on the market, with various your open militaries downsizing due to budget cuts. The 2a6 version takes second place only to the latest and greatest version of the Abrams, ND could probably be had for under a million a unit. Add in a panzer 2000 for mobile artillery and you've got something to even make uncle Sam a bit nervous about fighting.

But this would involve, you know forethought, and not giving in to massive amountso of graft and corruption involved in the funds.


Why?

Seriously, why would they bother?

What they have is cheap, simple, easy to maintain. They have no military purpose, aside from maybe what our SWAT teams have APC's for. They're toys to look good in parades and they do that just fine.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:23 pm

Why would they bother?
Look who they share a border with.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Aesop » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:25 pm

g-man wrote:Looking around on teh intarwebz a bit, it appears these are pretty much the extent of their armor capabilities. So, if you've got a spare $250k lying around, you could pick up the Chieftain that's available and then take over Paraguay. Just sayin'...


Right.
But then you'd be stuck with...Paraguay.

For the same amount of money you could buy a rustbelt township, make your friends and families the police department, and then put in for some kickass surplus gear from Uncle Sam. For $1.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:01 pm

HTRN wrote:Why would they bother?
Look who they share a border with.


And what are they going to accomplish with a few parade toy surplus Leopards that they can't maintain that they can't accomplish just as well (or, in this case, poorly) with a few parade toy elderly relics that they at least can, maybe, maintain?

Right, overthrow the government. :lol:
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:35 am

That's a software issue. :mrgreen:

Hence my "graft and corruption" comment.

A couple dozen lep2a6s, a dozen pzkw2000, a dozen or two supercobras, a dozen of the latest mark phantoms, and maybe a half dozen f111 in a custom light bomber variant, and you could probably paste any military south of the Rio grande.

Of course, that assuming competent soldiers and leadership.. :roll:
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:43 am

HTRN wrote:That's a software issue. :mrgreen:

Hence my "graft and corruption" comment.

A couple dozen lep2a6s, a dozen pzkw2000, a dozen or two supercobras, a dozen of the latest mark phantoms, and maybe a half dozen f111 in a custom light bomber variant, and you could probably paste any military south of the Rio grande.

Of course, that assuming competent soldiers and leadership.. :roll:


You want Tornados, or A-6's or A-7's or (and these are actually sought after on the used market) A-4's.... definitely *not* F-111's. You could even probably pick up a couple dozen reasonably modernized Mirage F-1's from Spain for a song (if your Uncle will let Spain sell them to you). Not Phantoms, either.

But, after reading that last line, and yes you said it yourself.... We go back to where I said:

Why?

Seriously, why would they bother?
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:25 pm

I mentioned f111s, as it's probably the closest thing to an actual bomber available.

And not uncle sugar thought this was a great idea too - the fb111a variant was intended for this exact role, with a payload of 35,000 pounds.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:39 pm

HTRN wrote:I mentioned f111s, as it's probably the closest thing to an actual bomber available.

And not uncle sugar thought this was a great idea too - the fb111a variant was intended for this exact role, with a payload of 35,000 pounds.


Yes, but that's not the point.

You're not going to be able to get used ones cheap, and if you did get one you wouldn't be able to keep it flying. It's an unreliable maintenance nightmare. *We* had trouble keeping them working.

Should you want a pseudo bomber, Tornado will do what you need and there are plenty of recently retired models available (and Euro-owned so lightly used). Or A-6's, if you don't mind ugly and slow. ;)

More likely though you want an attack aircraft, an A-4's and A-7's are kind of the used value gold standard here. I believe a couple squadrons of like-new refurbed Kfirs could be yours at bargain rates, too.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby SoupOrMan » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:23 pm

The F models are still likely airworthy. The G models are likely airworthy as well. The A, D and E models are good sources for parts.

I'd use those and any A-6s you find in a medium bomber/stand-off strike format. For ground attack, though, you want A-4s or A-7s if you're working on the cheap.

We always joked about using the old GAU-4/A gun pods from F-4Cs and Ds on pylons for strafing runs. It would work way better than the ill-advised gun in the weapons bay.

I'm honestly surprised they're not using old M3 Lee tanks as well.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:26 am

SoupOrMan wrote:I'm honestly surprised they're not using old M3 Lee tanks as well.


I wonder how many of those still exist.

It was an awkward interim design, anything to shoehorn in a gun big enough to fire a useful HE shell so they stuck it in the hull. Large crew requirements, poorly armored for it's bulk, difficult for a TC to effectively control/fight....

Don't think they made too many of them, and they were soon replaced by the Sherman. And once the Sherman was available, I don't think anyone was going to take great care of their remaining stocks of Grant/Lee tanks (ISTR it had both nicknames, but I don't recall who used which name).

I think a lot of them were converted to other uses, like recovery vehicle, self-propelled artillery, early APC.....
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jericho941 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:40 am

Yeah, the M3 could get really chaotic in a hurry.

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jered » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:55 am

D5CAV wrote:
Jered wrote:The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".


They got the guns from the French, though.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jericho941 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:02 am

Jered wrote:
D5CAV wrote:
Jered wrote:The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".


They got the guns from the French, though.

Likely the Shermans themselves, too, IIRC. Most postwar French armor was either American or captured/surrendered German.

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:06 am

Jericho941 wrote:
Jered wrote:
D5CAV wrote:
Jered wrote:The French upgunned some Shermans with a 105mm cannon.

That would be the Israelis. They managed to shoehorn in 105mm rifles and Diesel engines. They were called "Super Shermans".


They got the guns from the French, though.

Likely the Shermans themselves, too...

Nope. They already had the Shermans. The Israelis had already changed out the rotary gas engines to diesels, and had gone through a couple of iterations trying out higher velocity guns.

By the 1950s, the French were trying to sell the Israelis AMX 10s. The Israelis didn't like the (lack of) armor on the AMX 10, but they ended up buying the French 105mm rifle and squeezing it into their Shermans.

I've seen that gun, although I haven't fired it. It was on the AMX 30 and on the later marks of the AMX 10. It's a little lower velocity than the Sheffield 105mm rifles we had in our M1s, but it was shorter and lighter. Pretty good "bang for the buck" if you pardon the pun.

The lack of real estate in the Sherman turret, even after the Israelis added the bustle, meant that little 105mm didn't have much vertical swing, but the Israelis managed to turn their Shermans into pretty effective T54 killers.

I don't know where the Israelis originally got their Shermans, but I suspect they were bought for scrap and shipped to Haifa as scrap steel from Jersey City in the late 1940s or early 1950s. Most Shermans ended up as Buicks and Fords after WW2, anyway. Back in the bad old days of the Truman and Eisenhower administrations, the ATF wasn't quite so anal about making sure any surplus military hardware had all the breech blocks and trunnions properly torch cut into little pieces.

Also, Eisenhower was too smart to take sides in the middle east. If any Shermans were gifts of the US, I'm sure Eisenhower made sure his fingerprints weren't on them.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Cybrludite » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:12 pm

D5CAV wrote:I don't know where the Israelis originally got their Shermans, but I suspect they were bought for scrap and shipped to Haifa as scrap steel from Jersey City in the late 1940s or early 1950s. Most Shermans ended up as Buicks and Fords after WW2, anyway. Back in the bad old days of the Truman and Eisenhower administrations, the ATF wasn't quite so anal about making sure any surplus military hardware had all the breech blocks and trunnions properly torch cut into little pieces.

Also, Eisenhower was too smart to take sides in the middle east. If any Shermans were gifts of the US, I'm sure Eisenhower made sure his fingerprints weren't on them.

Pretty sure the Israeli Shermans were Brit & French surplus. I seem to recall them having Sherman Fireflys with the 17lb. gun in service for a while.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby SoupOrMan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:09 pm

Jericho941 wrote:Yeah, the M3 could get really chaotic in a hurry.

"The 75mm main gun is firing. The 37mm secondary gun is firing, but it’s traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying, ‘Driver advance’ on the A set, but the driver – who can’t hear me – is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret, and see 12 enemy, just 50 yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
-Lt. Ken Giles


And at no point is he shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" which is kind of sad in a way.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:05 am

Yugoslavia still had Shermans into the 1970s. That's why Clint was able to use them for "Kelly's Heroes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4lVoCFZvk

A much more realistic depiction of Shermans than the Brad Pitt movie, IMHO.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Jericho941 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:18 pm

D5CAV wrote:Yugoslavia still had Shermans into the 1970s. That's why Clint was able to use them for "Kelly's Heroes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4lVoCFZvk

A much more realistic depiction of Shermans than the Brad Pitt movie, IMHO.

What part, the jury-rigged PA system, the fake "90mm" extension (when the Brits were camoflaging their Firefly barrels to make them less of a target), or the paint rounds? :lol:

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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:35 am

To begin with, the three Sherman's in Kelly's Heroes look the same. Same Mark, same configuration, same gun, same well used paint, etc.

In Fury, they had different guns, different paint, different configurations, etc. No unit would have such different vehicles. Maintenance, ammo compatibility, etc. would all be issues in a combat setting.

Kelly's Heroes also gave more of a sense of the claustrophobic nature of a tank

besides, the Fury Sherman's were too clean. Underneath the superficial mud the director splashed on them, you could see they were kept in spotless garages, next to the polished Ferrari.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Greg » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:50 am

D5CAV wrote:To begin with, the three Sherman's in Kelly's Heroes look the same. Same Mark, same configuration, same gun, same well used paint, etc.

In Fury, they had different guns, different paint, different configurations, etc. No unit would have such different vehicles. Maintenance, ammo compatibility, etc. would all be issues in a combat setting.

Kelly's Heroes also gave more of a sense of the claustrophobic nature of a tank

besides, the Fury Sherman's were too clean. Underneath the superficial mud the director splashed on them, you could see they were kept in spotless garages, next to the polished Ferrari.


Except real units weren't always uniform in their equipment. Jumbo's especially were specialist items that a unit might have only a few of. Other differences, well you use what you can get.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:57 am

SoupOrMan wrote:
Jericho941 wrote:Yeah, the M3 could get really chaotic in a hurry.

"The 75mm main gun is firing. The 37mm secondary gun is firing, but it’s traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying, ‘Driver advance’ on the A set, but the driver – who can’t hear me – is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret, and see 12 enemy, just 50 yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
-Lt. Ken Giles


And at no point is he shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" which is kind of sad in a way.


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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby D5CAV » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:39 am

Actually, there was a British officer who would regularly go into battle in WW2 leading his troops with a basket hilt claymore - "Mad Jack" Churchill: http://badassoftheweek.com/churchill.html

He also used longbows (he was the British longbow champion from the 1930s) and would often lead his men into battle playing his bagpipes.

He was quoted as complaining "If it wasn't for those damned Yanks, we could have kept this war going for another ten years!"

After the war, he ended up as a surfer in Australia.

Yeah, they broke the mold after he came out.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby SoupOrMan » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:12 am

HTRN wrote:
SoupOrMan wrote:And at no point is he shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!" which is kind of sad in a way.


4chan turns grimderp into cracky awesomeness :ugeek: :mrgreen:


One of my coworkers is a former cav scout and tank commander. I should ask him if he ever shouted that while underway.
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby HTRN » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:42 am

D5CAV wrote:Actually, there was a British officer who would regularly go into battle in WW2 leading his troops with a basket hilt claymore - "Mad Jack" Churchill: http://badassoftheweek.com/churchill.html

He also used longbows (he was the British longbow champion from the 1930s) and would often lead his men into battle playing his bagpipes.

He was quoted as complaining "If it wasn't for those damned Yanks, we could have kept this war going for another ten years!"

After the war, he ended up as a surfer in Australia.

Yeah, they broke the mold after he came out.

Oh, I'm familiar with Mad Jack. But that quote is from the same lunatics that took a game that sets the standard for grimdark in scifi gaming, and turned it inside out. These are the same lunatics that came up with the Angry Marines :lol:
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Re: Paraguay keeping M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman tanks in service

Postby Denis » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:27 am

D5CAV wrote:Yeah, they broke the mold after he came out.


Not entirely. They keep on making warriors. I had the pleasure of meeting this unassuming, softly-spoken, modest gentleman recently:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... yonet.html


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