LCS being upgraded to FF

[Vonz90]

http://news.usni.org/2015/01/15/sna-mod ... st-frigate

I haven't seen enough detail to make a judgment, it looks like they are fixing the weapons issues but they are also under manned for maintenance and DC.

[Greg]

Well of course.

They've always been frigates. Or, in Americanese, DE's. The central conceit of the whole LCS concept, the modularity and adaptability, is meant to recreate the adaptability of the WWII-era DE's, which were rebuilt into some insane number of different configurations for specialized missions.

[PawPaw]

I suspect that this means something to somebody, but it looks like they're only changing a designation. From the linked article

:“One of the requirements of the Small Surface Combatant Task Force was to have a ship with frigate-like capabilities. Well, if it’s like a frigate, Let’s call it a frigate?” Mabus said.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, let's call it a duck.

I understand the confusion though. As a tank crewman, it used to drive me crazy when the unititiqated called everything that had tracks and (some) armor, a tank. Tanks is different than ACAVs, FVs, APCs and SPs. They're all different. Likewise, the swabbies know the difference, but to us they're all boats. Some bigger, some smaller, some have airplanes, some have big guns. They all float, until the don't.

[Vonz90]

I suspect that this means something to somebody, but it looks like they're only changing a designation. From the linked article

:“One of the requirements of the Small Surface Combatant Task Force was to have a ship with frigate-like capabilities. Well, if it’s like a frigate, Let’s call it a frigate?” Mabus said.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, let's call it a duck.

I understand the confusion though. As a tank crewman, it used to drive me crazy when the unititiqated called everything that had tracks and (some) armor, a tank. Tanks is different than ACAVs, FVs, APCs and SPs. They're all different. Likewise, the swabbies know the difference, but to us they're all boats. Some bigger, some smaller, some have airplanes, some have big guns. They all float, until the don't.

They are also upgrading the weapons and ECM systems. They are under armed now. They will only the the FF after the upgrade.

[blackeagle603]

They doing anything about the pathetic range? Or are the upgrades just going to degrade that further?

[SoupOrMan]

Needs more guns and missile launchers. And more ships, also with more guns and missile launchers.

[Vonz90]

They doing anything about the pathetic range? Or are the upgrades just going to degrade that further?

Yeah that and under manning. They are really corvettes more than frigates.

[tcourtplayer]

They doing anything about the pathetic range? Or are the upgrades just going to degrade that further?

Yeah that and under manning. They are really corvettes more than frigates.

The problem in manning isn't in design but in selling the technology to the old guard. The ship was actually designed to operate with even less than they are manned with but the old guard surface community refuses to give up their old style watch standing thus making it appear they are under manned. The navy had an idea on how they wanted this ship to run but failed to sell it to the captains that would be implementing it.

[Steamforger]

Frigate = Little Grey Missile Sponge. Missile is interchangeable with torpedo. They are ablative armor for carriers.

Some here might think this is a bit grim. If you want to understand grim, be an engineer on an Oiler.

[Vonz90]

They doing anything about the pathetic range? Or are the upgrades just going to degrade that further?

Yeah that and under manning. They are really corvettes more than frigates.

The problem in manning isn't in design but in selling the technology to the old guard. The ship was actually designed to operate with even less than they are manned with but the old guard surface community refuses to give up their old style watch standing thus making it appear they are under manned. The navy had an idea on how they wanted this ship to run but failed to sell it to the captains that would be implementing it.

The problem is not watch standing, the problem is damage control. The manning levels are basically at the "oh shit, we are hit (by anything) - abandon ship" level on the LCS's. You can take any ship in the Navy, get rid of 60% or more of the crew and be able to sail it around and do just fine, the problem is when bad things start happening. Maintenance is has also been a problem with them, they were designed to have short legs and get outside maintenance for most things (thus not enough crew or organic facilities to take care of themselves) - the problem with that is that is not how anyone on the operational side actually wants to use them and the costs of that model have turned out much higher than they thought they would be.

One other thing that people forget (or probably mostly don't know) - is that our combatants are only manned to about 80%-ish of what is normally considered necessary to fight the ship. This works in peacetime and even the sail around and shoot at somebody now and again kind of wars we fight lately - it would not work in a big time shooting war.