It begins

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D5CAV
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It begins

Post by D5CAV »

The Saker is a very good writer. He spent over 20 years in the US, but saw the writing on the wall about 10 years ago and now lives in Iceland (I would if I could): https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/saker ... -has-begun

Regarding the cause of the riots and unrest, he correctly points out that there is a big difference between causality and correlation:
The next thing which we must also keep in mind is that evidence of correlation is not evidence of causality. Take, for example, this article from CNN entitled “US black-white inequality in 6 stark charts” which completely conflates the two concepts and which includes the following sentence (stress added) “Those disparities exist because of a long history of policies that excluded and exploited black Americans, said Valerie Wilson, director of the program on race, ethnicity and the economy at the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning group.” The word “because” clearly point to a causality, yet absolutely nothing in the article or data support this. The US media is chock-full of such conflations of correlation and causality, yet it is rarely denounced.
This misunderstanding allows the media and government to get away with the equivalent of "wet sidewalks cause rain, so we need to dry our sidewalks."

Since he is in Iceland, he can safely speak the truth about the US:
I can personally attest that there is plenty of anti-White racism in the USA. Not only did I experience it myself (I lived in Washington, DC from 1986-1991), but it has been amply documented by people like Colin Flaherty whose books “White Girl Bleed A Lot: The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It” and “Knockout Game a Lie?: Awww, Hell No!” are excellent primers on Black on White violence and racism. Yet, anybody daring to suggest that US Blacks themselves are at least partially responsible for their own plight will immediately be labeled a “racist”.
He is also correct that this is not the beginning of a revolution or civil war (yet):
For a civil war to take place you need at least two sides, each with a clearly identifiable political agenda. Since the real power in the US is hidden from the public awareness, there is no potential for a “the people vs the rulers” kind of civil war in the US. A “Right/Conservative vs Left/Liberal” civil war is also not possible, because both the US Right and the US Left are, in reality controlled by a deep state which is neither liberal nor conservative.
It is an insurrection, that has yet to be adequately co-opted by either side of the political aisle:
what we are seeing today is a systemic collapse of the US society. That is not to say that the US will disappear, not at all. But just like it took the Soviet Union a decade or more to fully collapse (roughly from 1983-1993), it will take the US many years to fully crash. And just like a New Russia eventually began taking form in 1999, there will be a New US coming out of the current collapse. Total and final collapses are very rare, mostly they just initiate a lengthy and potentially very dangerous transformation process, the outcome of which is almost impossible to predict.
He is right. The transition will be messy...

… and it won't be televised.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Precision
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Re: It begins

Post by Precision »

... the transition is now
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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Vonz90
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Re: It begins

Post by Vonz90 »

Meh, crap happens, we will get through this. It is not even as bad as the 60s/70s and certainly not compared to the Civil War, or the Wilson administration or FDRs near dictatorship...
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JKosprey
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Re: It begins

Post by JKosprey »

Personally, I hope that this DOES lead to something new. I'm tired of cops being "specialer" than you or I. The kind of shit they get away with would have you or I in prison for the remainder of our lives. They have forgotten or abandoned Peele's Principles.

That said, I don't actually *support^ the rioting. I just think I get where it's coming from. Even as a law abiding, educated white male who WORKS with police on a regular basis, I've had a few encounters that have been extremely uncomfortable. I can only imagine what it might be like for a black dude with a couple busts for selling weed under his belt.

I also agree with those advocating for shrinking the police mission (many of whom are using a really stupid slogan of "abolish the police" for). I've seen at least one police chief actually arguing for the same stuff; ultimately, we ask too much of cops. They're the wastebasket for any civil problem, but they aren't really trained or equipped to deal with many of the problems we ask them to address. It's frankly impossible for them to be. One of the arguments against fire based EMS systems, for instance, is that it's really very difficult to remain proficient in both firefighting AND emergency medicine. A straight paramedic will generally be better at medicine than a fire medic. Likewise, a straight firefighter will be a better firefighter than a fire medic (and likely better rested than one whose just run 6 EMS calls back to back).

But we ask cops to be mediators, investigators, social workers, traffic enforcers, jail guards, EMTs, soldiers, crisis workers, and a number of other things I'm probably leaving off. It's too much for one role, and it's way too much for a 12-16 week police academy.

And, if nothing else, maybe more dems will begin to see the value of personal firearms ownership.
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Netpackrat
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Re: It begins

Post by Netpackrat »

Putting an end to "qualified immunity" which the courts created out of whole cloth, would be fine with me.
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D5CAV
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Re: It begins

Post by D5CAV »

Netpackrat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:47 am Putting an end to "qualified immunity" which the courts created out of whole cloth, would be fine with me.
+1

Some history: "qualified immunity" for police came at the same time as immunity from civil suits for cities and municipalities. This was championed by liberal leaders in the mid- to late-1960s, about the time of the anti-war and civil rights riots.

Back in the 1860s, during the "Gangs of New York" draft riots in NYC, the city was on the hook for any losses homeowners or businessmen suffered. Go look at some old copies of the NYT from 1863. You'll see records of "John Smith paid $50 for piano and door lost in riots" etc.

The idea, which I support, is that taxpayers are paying for police and fire to keep rioters from burning down their homes and businesses. It's kind of like paying for insurance. If there is a loss, it's because of failure of the police and fire organization, which the city managers were elected to manage.

Of course, everyone likes the authority of being a policeman or mayor, but no-one wants to take the responsibility that should come with that authority.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Precision
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Re: It begins

Post by Precision »

end qualified immunity for all below listed
end asset forfeiture
end the drug war
End over criminilization
end no knock raids
end the militarization of the police
end mandatory minimums

stolen from Justin Amash, but if these things are done as well as JK's point on stop asking cops to be all things to society (some overlap) things would get better.
I would also add in remove 50% of laws from the books focusing on things upgraded to felonies within the past say 50 years.
D5CAV wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:05 am
Netpackrat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:47 am Putting an end to "qualified immunity" which the courts created out of whole cloth, would be fine with me.
+1

Some history: "qualified immunity" for police came at the same time as immunity from civil suits for cities and municipalities. This was championed by liberal leaders in the mid- to late-1960s, about the time of the anti-war and civil rights riots.

Back in the 1860s, during the "Gangs of New York" draft riots in NYC, the city was on the hook for any losses homeowners or businessmen suffered. Go look at some old copies of the NYT from 1863. You'll see records of "John Smith paid $50 for piano and door lost in riots" etc.

The idea, which I support, is that taxpayers are paying for police and fire to keep rioters from burning down their homes and businesses. It's kind of like paying for insurance. If there is a loss, it's because of failure of the police and fire organization, which the city managers were elected to manage.

Of course, everyone likes the authority of being a policeman or mayor, but no-one wants to take the responsibility that should come with that authority.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
My little part of the blogosphere. http://blogletitburn.wordpress.com/
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Vonz90
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Re: It begins

Post by Vonz90 »

Netpackrat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:47 am Putting an end to "qualified immunity" which the courts created out of whole cloth, would be fine with me.
This would be a positive outcome. As a lever to de-empower the police and other public sector unions would be another.
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D5CAV
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Re: It begins

Post by D5CAV »

Precision wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:34 pmI would also add in remove 50% of laws from the books focusing on things upgraded to felonies within the past say 50 years.
+1 on your list, especially asset forfeiture.

I would go one step further on your last point. I would make every law go off the books after 10 years. If it's a law that everyone can agree on, like first degree murder is a felony, then it should not be a problem getting the votes to write a new law.

I would also ban omnibus legislation that lumps a bunch of unrelated laws together in one bill. Every law needs to be debated and voted separately.

A side benefit is that legislators will be kept busy passing legislation that is really needed rather than thinking up new legislation.

The one good thing about Clinton's AWB is that it had a 10 year life. If they could get the political will behind the law, they could vote a new AWB in, but the old one dies.

Many laws on are on the books that deserve to die as much as Clinton's AWB.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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slowpoke
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Re: It begins

Post by slowpoke »

JKosprey wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:08 am They have forgotten or abandoned Peele's Principles.
They’re never taught and even the Criminal Justice PHd’s are unaware of their history.
If they knew we would never be in this situation and they would be pointing out that the police don’t protect citizens but criminals so they can have a fair trial and not a fast execution.
"Islam delenda est" Aesop
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