2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

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rightisright
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2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by rightisright » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:50 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 803593001/

Now, I don't know shit about sailing. My experience is limited to one of those 12' long Sunfish. But it seems like the combined knowledge of these two broads is only slightly above mine. Their engine broke down, so they were stranded... on a sailboat. And they were stupid enough to go out into the vast ocean without an EPIRB (had to google that. Saw one on an episode of Deadliest Catch).

EPIRB: https://www.amazon.com/ACR-GlobalFix-28 ... ords=epirb

They could afford a desalinator and a years worth of food but not one EPIRB?

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Weetabix
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Weetabix » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:29 pm

They should have motored to Tahiti on grrrrrl power.
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Jered
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Jered » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:17 am

They're probably stupid hippies.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

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308Mike
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by 308Mike » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:33 am

Jered wrote:They're probably stupid hippies.
Using their underarm (and other) hair as nets to catch fish to eat (RAW).
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Netpackrat
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Netpackrat » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:55 am

It sounds as though they failed at navigation as much as anything... Wonder if they were depending on engine power to keep their GPS equipment working and/or batteries on a handheld charged? Because if you didn't know where you were, or where you were going, yeah, it's a big damn ocean out there, and you could still know how to sail (speaking only of operating the boat), and not manage to go anywhere useful.
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Vonz90
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Vonz90 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:08 am

Netpackrat wrote:It sounds as though they failed at navigation as much as anything... Wonder if they were depending on engine power to keep their GPS equipment working and/or batteries on a handheld charged? Because if you didn't know where you were, or where you were going, yeah, it's a big damn ocean out there, and you could still know how to sail (speaking only of operating the boat), and not manage to go anywhere useful.
Thus - They sailed on but without GPS or other electronic navigation aids - They were screwed. In the Atlantic you can fake it a bit but the Pac is too damn big.

That said - navigation on celestial and dead reckoning is not easy (SWO saying this) but if you keep your head about you and are more concerned with getting somewhere rather than where you originally intended to go, then it I not THAT hard.

Random bet that they did not actually have ANY paper charts so the had to wing it completely as soon as they lost GPS.

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Netpackrat
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Netpackrat » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:12 am

Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.
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Vonz90
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Vonz90 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:41 pm

Netpackrat wrote:Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.
If you have a sextant, and at least a rudimentary idea on how to use it, the very old method of navigation was to sight lines to the north star to get latitude, sail to the latitude of wherever you are going and then East/West to get there. That is not to hard to do for a novice. Technically do not even need a sextant, but at least something that can measure an angle to the horizon in a pinch (two sticks on a pivot and a compass rose could work for instance). Of course, you need a large enough scale chart to be able to figure out the latitude of where you are going and adjust to it.

Shooting a running fix to either sun or moon lines is more complex, but not completely infeasible for a semi-novice. You do need to be able to estimate your speed while doing this, but there are tools for this that you should have on board (can rig something with line if you have to as well). You need to know at least the general area of where you are on the planet to work that, but as long as you are taking fixes occasionally, that should not be a problem.

Taking full on three star fixes is very difficult and I would not expect anyone to do that unless they were relatively skilled/practiced, However, with two methods above it should not actually be necessary for rudimentary navigation to get somewhere.

BTW - I agree that a 30 ft boat is definitely pushing it for that application. I did my sailing in the Atlantic in a 44 ft yawl back in the day. The longest legs we did were maybe a little short of 1000 Nm and that was pushing it for my tastes in that sized boat. A lot depends on the how the boat is layed out and all that, but still, 30 ft is kinda small.

MarkD
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by MarkD » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:45 pm

Vonz90 wrote:
Netpackrat wrote:Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.
If you have a sextant, and at least a rudimentary idea on how to use it, the very old method of navigation was to sight lines to the north star to get latitude, sail to the latitude of wherever you are going and then East/West to get there. That is not to hard to do for a novice. Technically do not even need a sextant, but at least something that can measure an angle to the horizon in a pinch (two sticks on a pivot and a compass rose could work for instance). Of course, you need a large enough scale chart to be able to figure out the latitude of where you are going and adjust to it.

Shooting a running fix to either sun or moon lines is more complex, but not completely infeasible for a semi-novice. You do need to be able to estimate your speed while doing this, but there are tools for this that you should have on board (can rig something with line if you have to as well). You need to know at least the general area of where you are on the planet to work that, but as long as you are taking fixes occasionally, that should not be a problem.

Taking full on three star fixes is very difficult and I would not expect anyone to do that unless they were relatively skilled/practiced, However, with two methods above it should not actually be necessary for rudimentary navigation to get somewhere.

BTW - I agree that a 30 ft boat is definitely pushing it for that application. I did my sailing in the Atlantic in a 44 ft yawl back in the day. The longest legs we did were maybe a little short of 1000 Nm and that was pushing it for my tastes in that sized boat. A lot depends on the how the boat is layed out and all that, but still, 30 ft is kinda small.

Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Still, it seems they were in well over their heads and survived more thru luck than anything else. Not something to count on. Hell, a Sat phone would have had them home long ago.

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Weetabix
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Post by Weetabix » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:39 pm

MarkD wrote:Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.
Maybe you don't check your latitude just the once? ;)
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