What to do with Puerto Rico?

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Rich Jordan
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Rich Jordan » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:17 am

Netpackrat wrote:
evan price wrote:Oh and FBI is investigating allegations that relief aid is being held hostage for preferential treatment to political allies and payola.
Third world crap like this is why they will never be suitable for statehood.
As opposed to, say, illinois....

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Netpackrat
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Netpackrat » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:46 am

Rich Jordan wrote:
Netpackrat wrote:
evan price wrote:Oh and FBI is investigating allegations that relief aid is being held hostage for preferential treatment to political allies and payola.
Third world crap like this is why they will never be suitable for statehood.
As opposed to, say, illinois....
Illinois didn't start out that way.
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scipioafricanus
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by scipioafricanus » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:53 am

Remember a lot of Puerto Rican's protesting a navy base/ island used for training around 2004? I remember a fat "Rev" Sharpton going on a hunger strike over it, and eventually the Navy removed themselves from the island.

Good long term thinking on the commonwealth part.
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Jericho941
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Jericho941 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:19 pm

evan price wrote:
Jericho941 wrote:
Well, to be fair, Trump has been handling Puerto Rico's hurricane woes more or less exactly as well as a WWE gag guest....
Um no.
9500 containers of relief aid, logistics support for a marine division, etc.
None of which is where the POTUS lifts anything besides a pen. The part where he's actually relevant is where he's failing:
The mayor of San Juan can't even be bothered to go to the FEMA meetings where things are scheduled and apportioned...but she can find the surviving screen printing shop and have tee-shirts printed to claim Trump is killing them.
His job is 90% optics and he's getting massacred on that front. For one thing, he's a POTUS losing to a mayor of a city with a population of half that of Seattle. For another, his photo ops just bomb, like the towel-tossing incident.

He's still trying to wage an election campaign against Hitlery Clinton.

ShooterScott
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by ShooterScott » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:21 pm

Part of what I've heard is the problem is there were vultures from wallstreet buying up their debt and will not let them get out of it. I guess this is a common tactic.
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Vonz90
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Vonz90 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:46 pm

ShooterScott wrote:Part of what I've heard is the problem is there were vultures from wallstreet buying up their debt and will not let them get out of it. I guess this is a common tactic.
Vulture funds do buy up defaulted debt, which is a good thing or there would be no market for defaulted debt which would be worse for both the people holding it and ultimately those who issue debt and have risky credit.

So why exactly should PR not have to pay back their bonds?

Precision
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Precision » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:24 am

Is "let it burn" an option?

If not, can we retract their territory status and MAKE them their own country?
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Greg
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Greg » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:42 pm

Jericho941 wrote:
evan price wrote:
Jericho941 wrote:
Well, to be fair, Trump has been handling Puerto Rico's hurricane woes more or less exactly as well as a WWE gag guest....
Um no.
9500 containers of relief aid, logistics support for a marine division, etc.
None of which is where the POTUS lifts anything besides a pen. The part where he's actually relevant is where he's failing:
The mayor of San Juan can't even be bothered to go to the FEMA meetings where things are scheduled and apportioned...but she can find the surviving screen printing shop and have tee-shirts printed to claim Trump is killing them.
His job is 90% optics and he's getting massacred on that front. For one thing, he's a POTUS losing to a mayor of a city with a population of half that of Seattle. For another, his photo ops just bomb, like the towel-tossing incident.

He's still trying to wage an election campaign against Hitlery Clinton.
You seem to be making the bizarre argument that substance is irrelevant and appearances are what's *really* important.
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Jericho941
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by Jericho941 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:33 am

Greg wrote:You seem to be making the bizarre argument that substance is irrelevant and appearances are what's *really* important.
Well, I am talking about American politics. :)

But more directly, it's that a politician (particularly a president) is largely irrelevant on a practical level beyond signing an order drafted by other people so that other other people will sort out the details and do the work. That the rest of his job, the majority of his job, is selling it. "My fellow Americans, Things are being done about the Stuff. I have personally made sure of it. Today, I am personally overseeing it by standing in front of a crowd at the Place where the Stuff happened, so you know that I Care and am Doing Things. I am Powerful and Important, so you know that the Things I do will take care of the Stuff for you. I can only do it faster and better with your help."

Colbert might've mocked Bush for this:
I stand by this man. I stand by this man because he stands for things. Not only for things, he stands on things. Things like aircraft carriers and rubble and recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message: that no matter what happens to America, she will always rebound -- with the most powerfully staged photo ops in the world.
But it worked.

And this isn't just cynical "this is how you keep your approval ratings up when bad things happen." Keeping up appearances in the face of adversity is a president's job. It draws attention to the problems in a constructive way and helps get things done. And if the locals aren't helping, you turn that against them. "Yeah, it's great that you're wading through sewage with a bullhorn, but that's not your job. If you really want to help, you have to meet with us so we can coordinate. Leave the rescue work to our very capable professionals." Then, she either gets with the program or eats shit. Either relief starts reaching the people who need it or the person jamming it up takes the blame.

Or you could toss towels randomly at survivors like you're firing a t-shirt cannon into a wrestling audience because you think every show is the same, and let her walk all over you. But that's the behavior of someone whose political victory came exclusively from running against someone who thought they didn't even need to run.

That's the thing about politics: style and substance are related.

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HTRN
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Re: What to do with Puerto Rico?

Post by HTRN » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:22 am

Nothing will happen, as Puerto Ricans are a well organized, and politically active group here in Ny, which means any attempt to force either statehood(which has responsibilties and taxes they don't want) or independence(economic suicide) becomes a form of political suicide. Only the Hasidic Jews are better connected/organized ethic group in terms of political influence at the local(which has ripples at the state and federal level) level.
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