The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

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Netpackrat
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Netpackrat » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:22 am

randy wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:12 am
The biggest stupidity with the "Red Flag" laws (assuming they actually follow a rational due process route, big assumption) is that they lock up the guns, not the person who is supposedly such a threat.
It only seems stupid because you are accepting at face value the marketing, which is that they are trying to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Which is of course total bullshit... The entire point of the effort is to create a weapon to be used against normal gun owners.
Yeah, sure, let's piss off that "dangerous" person by taking away his property and leave him out and with access to motor vehicles, gasoline, fertilizer, chlorine and ammonia, and, oh yeah, the ability to hook with the friendly neighborhood gang bangers to get an off books gun.

As Jeremy Clarkson says: "What could go wrong?"
Again, I am sure they have considered that, and it falls into the category of "bonus" for our enemies. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy... They can point to the generated examples and say "see, we were right" and use it to push for further infringements.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

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Precision
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Precision » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:59 am

too lazy to dig for the article link, so here is my rough draft of my article on Red Flag laws. Nov 2018

Odd, it won't let me attach a word file.
So I guess I have to paste it inline. sorry
Red Flag Laws – Nov 2018
Are you aware that several, now many state have laws in place to circumvent your 2nd,4th and 5th Amendment rights, relating to guns . Are you aware that in most of those states it only takes one person to declare you as a danger to yourself or others with regards to LEGALLY owned firearms? After the declaration and with no chance for consideration or rebuttal, the firearms are removed from your possession. Often, this is done with a surprise, no knock raid in the pre-dawn hours.

Are you aware that Marco Rubio is proposing this same legislation on a National Level?

In some states these “Red Flag” laws may be called Extreme Risk Protection Orders (ERPO) or a Gun Violence Restraining Orders (GVRO). In most cases they can be best described as being slightly more selective than the Salem Witch trials. Someone reported, therefore, you are guilty. The dunk tank or the fire pit will determine your innocence. Before you declare me as being over the top in my hyperbole, what are you going to do when your front door bursts open at 3AM when you KNOW for sure you don’t have any warrants, drugs or the like. I know I am going to assume home invasion and proceed to repel boarders.

In most cases, the SWAT team will have been sent to enforce compliance. They will crash through the door as a stack of armed and armoured (mostly) men. In the fog of a “home invasion” people (most likely me) will die. Don’t even think about what will happen to my dog.
Maryland passed such a law in mid October 2018. They have already used it 9 times as of the publishing of this article. In those 9 seizures, one has already been fatal to a citizen. I realize it is a small sample set; but, two thing concern me. First, the issuing judge and Maryland Law Enforcement community stated, “this is proof the law is working.” Did we initiate a Bureau of Pre-Crime while I wasn’t looking? Second, at this rate over 350 people will have their right to possess a firearm removed through extra judicial means, in the first year and roughly 35 people will be dead because of it.

Even if you take the word of the partisan group Gun Violence Archive, a group that claims there have been 307 mass shootings in the first 312 days of 2018. Of course they include every incident of gang violence, bank robbery, and drive by shooting as part of their statistics. Even inflating the numbers like they do, only gets them to 22 “mass shooting” victims in Maryland in 2018. If we exclude Baltimore from the rest of Maryland, that number drops to 3. Have you seen the gang violence statistics on Baltimore, but I digress. So by my math, they are willing to have roughly 50% more people die keeping “mass shootings” from happening? I guess, if the correct people (gun owners) are dying, it isn’t a bad thing?

Infringement:

The 2nd Amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
As most of you know, the 4th Amendment and to some degree the 14th have been under assault. Supreme Court deference to the state and its investigatory powers is strongly documented.

Terry Vs Ohio – basically the frisk at will exemption

Florida Vs Bostick – the he didn’t stop us from searching exemption

Schneckloth vs Bustamonte – an uninformed citizen is a legally searched citizen

Mapp vs Ohio – we got the exclusionary rule. In other words if the search is illegal, then any evidence
obtained is excluded from use in court.

This would be good news, except; Herring vs US – gives law enforcement the “good faith” exemption -- basically stating that if the police make a procedural mistake the fall out is on you, not them.

All of the above cases are my way of pointing to the Supreme Court as unlikely to limit or strike down these new “Red Flag” laws. My fellow patriots, Constitutional Conservatives and gun people; get off your butts and make sure your state is NOT attempting to pass such laws. If they are, get moving and work to pressure your (theoretical) representatives to follow the letter and intent of the Constitution and vote these travesties down.

As of this article, 13 states have passed “Red Flag” laws. Mostly the usual suspects on the left coast and New England; but, Florida is also on that list. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio are currently considering such rubbish.

You have been warned.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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MarkD
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by MarkD » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:24 pm

I've mentioned this before, but it always bears repeating.

Back when I lived in NJ, my wife worked with a guy (we'll call him Bob to make it simpler) who was a gun owner, and who had a brother who was going thru a messy divorce. The soon-to-be-ex-wife said she was afraid that Bob would give his brother a gun so he could shoot her. Cops showed up and Bob's house and took everything, even his bow and arrows. They told him "You don't have a choice, we're taking them, you'll have to go to court to get them back."

This kind of thing WILL happen, and not everyone will accept it lying down like Bob did. Because of course he DOES have a choice, you ALWAYS have a choice, but some choices are life-changing.

Precision
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Precision » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:21 pm

MarkD wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:24 pm

...
This kind of thing WILL happen, and not everyone will accept it lying down like Bob did. Because of course he DOES have a choice, you ALWAYS have a choice, but some choices are life-changing.

There does not seem to be a strike thru option anymore.
alter Life-changing to LIFE ENDING, be it for the enforcing LEO, the citizen or both.
Last edited by Precision on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
My little part of the blogosphere. http://blogletitburn.wordpress.com/

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Netpackrat
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Netpackrat » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:37 pm

That option is near certain to be life ending for the citizen, the only question being how many will he take with him?
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Ass-op

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Jered
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Jered » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:04 am

MarkD wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:24 pm
This kind of thing WILL happen, and not everyone will accept it lying down like Bob did. Because of course he DOES have a choice, you ALWAYS have a choice, but some choices are life-changing.
Bob could have bought a bulldozer...
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

MarkD
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by MarkD » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:58 am

Netpackrat wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:37 pm
That option is near certain to be life ending for the citizen, the only question being how many will he take with him?
The problem is one of escalation. In Bob's case two uniformed cops showed up. One can imagine a swat team instead, breaking down the door, shooting the dog, and probably killing Bob and his wife.

A few of THOSE incidents and things turn ugly, real ugly, real fast

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Jered
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Jered » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:39 am

MarkD wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:58 am
The problem is one of escalation. In Bob's case two uniformed cops showed up. One can imagine a swat team instead, breaking down the door, shooting the dog, and probably killing Bob and his wife.

A few of THOSE incidents and things turn ugly, real ugly, real fast
That's one reason to keep a taxidermy dog loaded with tannerite in your house.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

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Vonz90
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by Vonz90 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:31 pm

MarkD wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:24 pm
I've mentioned this before, but it always bears repeating.

Back when I lived in NJ, my wife worked with a guy (we'll call him Bob to make it simpler) who was a gun owner, and who had a brother who was going thru a messy divorce. The soon-to-be-ex-wife said she was afraid that Bob would give his brother a gun so he could shoot her. Cops showed up and Bob's house and took everything, even his bow and arrows. They told him "You don't have a choice, we're taking them, you'll have to go to court to get them back."

This kind of thing WILL happen, and not everyone will accept it lying down like Bob did. Because of course he DOES have a choice, you ALWAYS have a choice, but some choices are life-changing.
So I do not get this (in terms of some of the counter points of view). It is already happening, there are cases (not many but not zero) where it should happen. I think having a law that really defines what can and cannot be done (and preferably precludes BS like above) then I would support it.

If it is a bad law (and some of what is discussed and all of what is coming from the left is bad) sure, oppose it. But I would rather we try to shape it into a positive direction. The left does not like wasting a crisis, well we should not waste this one either and if we are only playing defense it will be the case. Then we will end up with the Left's wish list and nothing of ours.

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blackeagle603
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Re: The Bedwetting Gungrabbers Are Out In Force

Post by blackeagle603 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm

Jered FTW "That's one reason to keep a taxidermy dog loaded with tannerite in your house."
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story

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