Am I The Asshole?

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skb12172
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by skb12172 »

BDK wrote: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:01 am Why the hell is that a debate in a law school? That makes no damn sense. Family law is involved, and complicated enough, if you just stick to being lawyers.

You're completely wrong about the State's involvement in marriage being recent, by the way.

Rule 1 in law, all of the most useless things ever said in a legal setting, begin, "In my opinion"
Hey, BDK, thanks for chiming in. OK, I'm wrong about government's involvement in marriage? Care to elaborate or point me in the right direction? I'm going to google-fu after this comment so I'll come back with what I find out, as well.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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skb12172
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by skb12172 »

I don't mean to keep beating the dead horse, but this bitch is driving me batty. Married three times, twice to the same dude. A failure in life with a bunch of dead end jobs. 45 years old and finally just finished a bachelor's in general studies (majored in School!). She talks about her "extensive experience in family court" because of her divorce and custody issues. She also was an intern in the prosecutor's office, where she "worked on the hard core stuff." I assume what she actually did was carried papers and filed papers and got to watch court proceedings. From her delusional point of view, she gives the impression she was arguing cases like fucking Matlock.

She is constantly blathering and has very strong opinions. She seems to equate that with meaning she has intelligence. She's above average smart, but with some huge gaps in her education. I have no doubt she's a fucking genius compared to her social circle, but she's in a different league now. The thing is, as evidenced by her poor life choices, she is obviously so delusional she will never realize it. Lord, grant me patience.

-------------------------
One thing that I have learned in this program, and through my stint with the public defender's office working on the hardcore stuff (in and out of court), is that you just have to be able to approach each situation with that respect. It's not an episode of Law and Order where you walk in and people start slinging opinions, name calling, or publicly defaming somebody and lying about others (no matter how much you want to, or think you should be able to - lol). No, it is that same type of professionalism that is expected out of the common courtesy that you speak of. Childish antics will find you thrown out of the court, or in lockup for contempt in the real world setting very quickly. It doesn't matter who you think you are or know. I know that in Judge Tapp's courtroom he makes it perfectly clear that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. It was so funny, most were afraid to even crack a smile, including the prosecution, for fear of reprimand. But, the man knows his stuff, and, in my opinion, was hard but fair across the board. And, all the other Judge's that I had the pleasure of working with were just as intolerant. Judge Slone would have a smoke with you outside the courthouse and talk about her new marriage and her house remodel, or Judge Burdette about his back problems, but you walk into her Juvenile Court, or his Circuit Court proceedings and it was like you had never laid eyes on each other before. The expectation in the real world requires what you, Jim, and I have talked about as old fashioned.
Plus, whether you are talking to the person on your side of the courtroom or the opposing, you need to maintain that open communication, and not be off-putting or it could actually hurt your case. And, always rectify it immediately if it has been brought to your attention. People in the courts hold grudges, and it is reflected in your ability to work with them. I was part of many cases where the client was looking at life in prison, but because there was the professional sensitivity required in the courtroom, both sides could sit down and work out a more appropriate plea deal. Most of the time avoiding many court appearances, and the such. That would not happen if the prosecution had been offended or treated disrespectfully. David Dalton is known for going for all he can if pushed to it. He will tell you that while sitting in the foyer while you're discussing his triplets latest ballgames. And, no matter which side you sit on, you never know where you will end up, or who you may have to work with (or want that perfect job from) in the future. I made several contacts, renewed old ones, and even made it out with multiple job offers and letters of recommendations, just because I knew how to behave. So, keeping that in mind, it is often best to approach every situation with kid gloves. There's no level of sensitivity, feelings, etc. involved. It's just good old fashioned common sense. What's the old saying? Don't cut your nose off to spite your face!!! That's how you have to approach it all.
In family law, especially, many will find that that extra panache of decorum is not only expected, but it is demanded. You cannot go into a room of soon-to-be exes and expect an outcome of anything less than chaos and horror, when your approach is to be abrasive and condescending. One cannot sit there and treat any other in that room as if they have no clue what they are talking about, or that their opinion does not matter. Even if you know you are right to the fullest extent of your being, the approach must be that of simple old fashioned courtesy. I saw this in a couple of the juveniles we represented. If the lawyer had talked to them in any way other than respectful (but stern of course), there would have been major blow-ups in the court, and the case would have been lost. The ethical implications of a lawyer, or his/her staff, are even a factor to contemplate. I know that I personally would not want to be the one (as a lawyer) suspended, or disbarred because of the ethical consequences of a childish, unprofessional, or disrespectful action from anybody.

Liz
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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Vonz90
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by Vonz90 »

Going back to your original argument, think it references the baseline views of the other side rather than more narrow result of those views. This makes it both easier to take personally and makes your argument weaker because it is actually possible to come up with an opposite conclusion based on more or less the same base.

But I'm an engineer, so YMMV.
BDK
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by BDK »

The state has been defining acceptable marriages, for a long time. Whether or not first-cousins may marry, whether or not adult adoptees may marry, whether or not adopted siblings may marry, which tests, etc must be passed before a couple may be married, which races may marry, how many participants may be in a marriage, at what age people may be married - and, going back far enough, whether or not the sovereign gave them permission to marry at all. (That's ignoring the more set prohibitions on same sex marriages, and on biologically incestuous ones, closer than first cousins.)



I'm sure there are more, but that's off the top of my head.
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randy
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by randy »

skb12172 wrote: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:51 pm
..It's not an episode of Law and Order where you walk in and people start slinging opinions, name calling, or publicly defaming somebody and lying about others (no matter how much you want to, or think you should be able to...

...Childish antics will find you thrown out of the court, or in lockup for contempt in the real world setting very quickly. It doesn't matter who you think you are or know...

There's no level of sensitivity, feelings, etc. involved. It's just good old fashioned common sense. What's the old saying? Don't cut your nose off to spite your face!!! That's how you have to approach it all.
[Side bar: Common Sense, isn't - Heinlein]
... that extra panache of decorum is not only expected, but it is demanded. You cannot go into a room of soon-to-be exes and expect an outcome of anything less than chaos and horror, when your approach is to be abrasive and condescending...

The ethical implications of a lawyer, or his/her staff, are even a factor to contemplate. I know that I personally would not want to be the one (as a lawyer) suspended, or disbarred because of the ethical consequences of a childish, unprofessional, or disrespectful action from anybody.
But you're the one that that's using personal attacks and being condescending. Rigggght. :roll:

Oh, I've found people that constantly refer to all the "important" people that they know and work for/with usually don't have nearly the connections they claim and that they push that line because they don't have anything of substance to back up their position.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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skb12172
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by skb12172 »

It's worth pointing out that she didn't even have a bachelor's degree when she did her internship. I suspect that if she was working on "hard core" cases at all, it involved nothing more than copying them and either handing them back to an actual attorney or filing them away. She's trying to act like she's on a first name basis with judges because one smoked with her and answered a couple of her questions.

She writes and acts like a teenage girl and she's trying to pretend she's Matlock. Somehow, I think an objective observer to her internship would come away with a very different conclusion and narrative.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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Mike OTDP
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by Mike OTDP »

Of course you're an asshole. :-) Just like the rest of us. But your arguments are sound.
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HTRN
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by HTRN »

randy wrote: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:01 pmNo.
I don't know why, but the one word response to a multi tnousand word post, made me laugh. :lol:
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
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skb12172
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by skb12172 »

It looks like a lawsuit is coming. The professor (a woman) reprimanded me. The department chair (another woman) backed her and denied me usual internal due process, telling me to get a lawyer and have my lawyer contact university counsel. Despite the obvious, let's add gender bias to my laundry list of complaints.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
TheArmsman
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Re: Am I The Asshole?

Post by TheArmsman »

Reprimanded for what? For writing cogent argument? grrrrr....
When death is inevitable, style counts.

Survival trumps programming.
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