Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

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Candyman
Posts: 850
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Candyman » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:25 pm

I guess you can say that I'm jumping into the fire.
Many of you know that I am a LEO.
First off I want to say, I do not condone the actions of the Deputy/ Deputies at the school. Was the first Deputy on seen at the school shooting in Florida a coward ? I would say yes. But one never knows how they will react until the moment arrives.
My Dept. active shooter policy is to make entry upon the second officer's arrival. We had a school shooting a few years ago and the first officer on seen was less then one min. and entry was made in 1 min and 10 sec.
I don't know how many of you have been in the military, or seen combat. I don't know if any of you are LEOs and had to respond to an active shooter call. Or if any of you have ever had to pull your CCW in a situation.
I have been in the military and seen combat. I have responded to a few active shooter calls as a LEO. I will tell you this, they are different.
No matter how brave you are, or think you are, you will never know how you will react until the moment arrives. When that moment does arrive, your actions will change your life forever.
The Deputy that has been labeled a coward has to live with the fact that he took no action and the life of 17 people are on his hands. Can he live with this, I don't know. But I do know brave men that fought bravely for this country that have committed suicide, and they were not cowards. I know LEOs that have put their lives on the line, been shot in the line of duty, but after doing such brave acts, turned in their badges.
Am I angry at the Deputy and his cowardly actions? No. I am ashamed of him.
Do not relish to feel what the men that used these weapons felt when they saw the elephant. For the elephant has tusk and to see him is to have his tusk dig deep into your soul. You will always have a part of you that will be cold and empty.

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Vonz90
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Vonz90 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:52 pm

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 36368.html

Interesting counterpoint, it appears that the deputy in question may have been told to wait outside as he was in contact with his dispatch. Possibly true with the other deputies who responded as well. I think it is very interesting that the deputies all waited outside while the Coral Springs police showed up and apparently entered immediately. As was suggested above by someone else, this may be a training/tactics/policy issue as much as any specific failing in the officer in question. In the end, you do what you are trained to do 99% of the time. If you train people to run to the sound of gunfire, they will. If you train them to go to alert an man their fighting stations, that is what they will do. If you train them to set a perimeter and wait, that is what they will do.

Clearly this Sheriff is incompetent and his department is a mess no matter what the deputy did. He should resign. I level no specific charges against the deputies in question other than a very general WTF? In the end, the police did their job, they showed up after the fact, helped clean up the bodies and arrested the perp. Woo hoo. They have no duty to protect anyone, so why be surprised when they do not? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/polit ... otect.html They do have a duty to investigate and make arrests when credible tips are provided that someone is planning a mass shooting, and that they did not do.

(Since it came up above, I am not an LEO, am former military, have been deployed and have been shot at a few times. I was also the CO of Navy security unit for a couple years and we did LEO functions too, but that was a rather different reality than civilian LEO so not apples/apples.)

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scipioafricanus
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by scipioafricanus » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:04 am

The big issue with the whole thing: Every level of Government failed and now they are blaming US! https://townhall.com/columnists/katiepa ... d-n2454214
Parkland was preventable, not through gun control but government competency or action. Government failed, repeatedly, to stop the massacre from occurring. It wasn’t the NRA that carried out the massacre, it was a young man who practically screamed to multiple government authorities about what he was going to do.
The civil liberties and rights of American citizens -- specifically gun owners -- are not a scapegoat for government failure. Period. Those making them the target, like Israel, instead of taking responsibility for negligence, should be shamed and exposed.
And they were hiding criminal activity to get more Fed money, just like with Trayvon Martin: https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... ounty.html

If only Coach Aaron Feis was allowed to carry while charging inside while Deputy Fife stared at the wall.
If there is a Stairway to Heaven, is there an Escalator to Hell?
If God wanted men to play soccer, he wouldn’t have given us arms. - Mike Ditka

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Termite
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Termite » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:55 am

George guy wrote:"AR-15s aren't going to protect you from the government"

"Can't blame the cop for being scared of an AR-15"

Pick one.
What do you expect from a media that is this MASSIVELY ignorant about firearms in general:

https://youtu.be/6Y2aSiGBvao

Hat tip to Pawpaw, he found it first.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."

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Netpackrat
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Netpackrat » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:49 pm

scipioafricanus wrote:If only Coach Aaron Feis was allowed to carry while charging inside while Deputy Fife stared at the wall.
I think you are being unfair to Deputy Fife. Barney would have put his bullet into his gun and walked into that school.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Ass-op

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scipioafricanus
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by scipioafricanus » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:39 am

Netpackrat wrote:
scipioafricanus wrote:If only Coach Aaron Feis was allowed to carry while charging inside while Deputy Fife stared at the wall.
I think you are being unfair to Deputy Fife. Barney would have put his bullet into his gun and walked into that school.
Apologies to Barney
If there is a Stairway to Heaven, is there an Escalator to Hell?
If God wanted men to play soccer, he wouldn’t have given us arms. - Mike Ditka

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Termite
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Termite » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:16 pm

Candyman wrote:Am I angry at the Deputy and his cowardly actions? No. I am ashamed of him.
Lawdog thinks the honorable thing for this SRO is Seppuku.
And -- quite frankly -- if you wear a badge, and you hide behind a car while children under your protection are getting killed, you should have the common [deleted] decency to take your sidearm, find a quiet country road somewhere, and Do The Proper Thing.
LINK
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."

Langenator
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by Langenator » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:14 pm

The sheriff of Denton County (TX) agrees.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... r-the-win/
Fortuna Fortis Paratus

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D5CAV
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Re: Deputy On Duty Didn't Engage Shooter

Post by D5CAV » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:55 am

Vonz90 wrote: ... In the end, the police did their job, they showed up after the fact, helped clean up the bodies and arrested the perp. Woo hoo. They have no duty to protect anyone, so why be surprised when they do not? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/polit ... otect.html They do have a duty to investigate and make arrests when credible tips are provided that someone is planning a mass shooting, and that they did not do.

Bingo! We have a winner!

There are Supreme Court rulings that have clarified exactly what Vonz said - po-po have no legal duty to protect anyone.

Besides, why are we dumping on [strike]Barney Fife[/strike] Scot Peterson of Broward County anyway? It's not like the did anything more or less than po-po at any other shooting.

Some recent examples:
1. Orlando Nightclub - po-po were at the door of the nightclub when shooting started. They waited for "backup", a SWAT MRAP to crash down the door 3 hours later. Broward County response is lightning fast in comparison

2. Aurora Colorado Batman movie - off-duty po-po were moonlighting at the door manning the metal detectors at the only "gun free" movie theater in a 20 mile radius. Colorado is a "shall issue" state, but anyone who forgot it was "gun free zone" were told by armed security (off duty po-po) to go put their hardware back in their cars. Once shooting started, po-po realized their level 3 vests and off-duty sidearms were no match for a rifle and waited for Aurora SWAT to show up. This time, SWAT got there in less than 30 minutes - much better than Orlando.

Besides, there were so many other screw-ups from people much higher up (and better paid) than Barney, from the FBI, to Broward County Sheriff, to Broward County HHS, to Broward County School, etc., why does he have to be the scapegoat?

Oh yeah - to divert attention from all of the above...
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


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