Police and the 2nd Amendment

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Vonz90
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Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby Vonz90 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:17 am


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Jered
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby Jered » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:45 am

Police officers in Southaven, Miss., were trying to serve an arrest warrant for aggravated assault on a man named Samuel Pearman,


...and...they obviously didn't succeed.

instead they showed up at a trailer owned by an auto mechanic named Ismael Lopez


I'm willing to bet these two gentleman don't look anything alike.

It was nighttime


Heaven forbid they serve a warrant during the day. :roll: Seriously. It's summer. They have 13 hours or so of daylight to choose from. But, no, we have to go at night...because reasons.

Lopez opened his door and a pit bull charged out


Imagine that. They scared someone at night and his dog runs out of the house.

One officer opened fire on the dog, the other officer fired on the man allegedly holding a gun in the doorway, pointing it at the men approaching his home.


I bet they were wearing dark clothes. At night. Obviously, they're out collecting for the Red Cross.

it was only after the smoke cleared that the officers made their “heart-dropping discovery: They were at the wrong home.”


Apparently, it's too much work to actually look at the address before you go pound on the door and wake some guy up at night.

First, extraordinarily dangerous and kinetic no-knock raids should be used only in the most extreme circumstances.


Gee. Guess what. If you show up and knock on someone's door, and they flush the drugs down the toilet, oh well. It's still a victory for the war on drugs, because those dealers have flushed their product. Of course, that doesn't look all high speed.

If you're looking for some dude, why not just camp out at his house until he goes to leave for work and collar him then? Hey, have someone go through the neighborhood and ask approximately when that guy leaves for work. Catch him then.

Innocent men and women are left with no recourse


There actually is a recourse. It doesn't end well for anyone, though.

How hard would it be to figure out what shift a police officer works by sitting outside their station for a couple of days. (It's not illegal to sit on the sidewalk with binoculars and a notebook.) Once you know where and when he works, one could, for instance, obtain a cargo van for less than $2000, construct a shooting platform in it, park, and wait for your target to start his shift.

How long did it take them to catch the DC snipers?
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby Netpackrat » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:06 am

Jered wrote:There actually is a recourse. It doesn't end well for anyone, though.

How hard would it be to figure out what shift a police officer works by sitting outside their station for a couple of days. (It's not illegal to sit on the sidewalk with binoculars and a notebook.) Once you know where and when he works, one could, for instance, obtain a cargo van for less than $2000, construct a shooting platform in it, park, and wait for your target to start his shift.


I like the irony of using actual investigation against those who couldn't be bothered with it in the first place.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby scipioafricanus » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:50 am

Everyone involved in it should be charged manslaughter.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby MarkD » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:58 pm

I love how it was a "heart dropping discovery" for the cops that they were at the wrong home. Poor cops. It was also a heart-STOPPING event for the home-owner, but who cares about little things like that.

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:31 pm

I'm sure an internal investigation will show that they followed their procedures (spit).
Watergate didn't have a body count.

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby scipioafricanus » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:00 pm

Wait till they stumble on someone who knows what they are doing. Reminds me of the home invasion of a Grand Master IDPA guy... it didn't go well for the intruders.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby Jered » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:09 am

scipioafricanus wrote:Wait till they stumble on someone who knows what they are doing. Reminds me of the home invasion of a Grand Master IDPA guy... it didn't go well for the intruders.


Wait until they do this to someone with a relative with nothing to lose and some motivation. It doesn't even take someone with a clue. Just motivation.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby BDK » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:48 am

It's more about the Fourth Amendment than the Second.

And a few manslaughter convictions would work wonders.

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby MarkD » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:50 pm

BDK wrote:It's more about the Fourth Amendment than the Second.

And a few manslaughter convictions would work wonders.


They'll be building snowmen in Hell before that happens. No DA will go after a cop, especially for things done while on duty, because that'll piss off the other cops, who will then start mis-handling evidence and causing the DA's conviction rate to plummet.

It is kinda silly that cops often fail to perform a task my mail-man handles just fine every day, i.e. making sure you're at the right frikkin' house.

My question is why they bothered with a high-speed-low-drag entry on an arrest warrant anyway? Why not just camp outside and grab him when he leaves to go buy groceries? Oh wait, that's not sexy and requires actual police work. Besides, SWAT teams are expensive, you have to USE them for something.....

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby scipioafricanus » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:56 pm

MarkD wrote:
BDK wrote:It's more about the Fourth Amendment than the Second.

And a few manslaughter convictions would work wonders.


They'll be building snowmen in Hell before that happens. No DA will go after a cop, especially for things done while on duty, because that'll piss off the other cops, who will then start mis-handling evidence and causing the DA's conviction rate to plummet.

It is kinda silly that cops often fail to perform a task my mail-man handles just fine every day, i.e. making sure you're at the right frikkin' house.

My question is why they bothered with a high-speed-low-drag entry on an arrest warrant anyway? Why not just camp outside and grab him when he leaves to go buy groceries? Oh wait, that's not sexy and requires actual police work. Besides, SWAT teams are expensive, you have to USE them for something.....

Baltimore, they started to prosecute anyway.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby Jered » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:25 am

MarkD wrote:They'll be building snowmen in Hell before that happens. No DA will go after a cop, especially for things done while on duty, because that'll piss off the other cops, who will then start mis-handling evidence and causing the DA's conviction rate to plummet.


I suspect that depends on the officer that the DA goes after. Of course, in the two recent shootings in Minneapolis, the cops were a victim group (the Philando Castile shooter was Hispanic, the other one that shot the hot Aussie chick was a Somali), evidently both of them were not capable of competent police work, and they had to partner the Somali dude with someone as inexperienced as he is. So, that makes me wonder how popular the Somali dude really was on the department.

It is kinda silly that cops often fail to perform a task my mail-man handles just fine every day, i.e. making sure you're at the right frikkin' house.


It's beyond silly. If they're that incompetent, they shouldn't be cops.

My question is why they bothered with a high-speed-low-drag entry on an arrest warrant anyway? Why not just camp outside and grab him when he leaves to go buy groceries? Oh wait, that's not sexy and requires actual police work. Besides, SWAT teams are expensive, you have to USE them for something.....


I suspect that's exactly right. It's kind of hard to justify an expense that size if they don't actually have to do anything. I suspect that about 99% of what a SWAT team does could be handled with two patrol officers equipped with AR-15 rifles.

Heaven forbid the police try to outthink a criminal, though. :roll:

scipioafricanus wrote:Baltimore, they started to prosecute anyway.


They prosecuted that guy in Minneapolis, too. I think they could go after him for 2nd degree murder.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby JKosprey » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:00 am

MarkD wrote:It is kinda silly that cops often fail to perform a task my mail-man handles just fine every day, i.e. making sure you're at the right frikkin' house.


I will say, as an EMS provider, sometimes it is really effing hard to find the correct address. Way too many people fail to properly number their houses, and sometimes the number/street config doesn't make sense (Like an "smith" street address that actually needs to be entered off of "main". However, generally, I agree, and I expect more thoroughness from the folks who are supposed to find and capture folks with anything up to and including lethal force. Especially with all of the tech and recon available today....there's zero excuse for hitting the wrong house in a planned raid.

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby skb12172 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:54 am

Have you ever watched the YouTube channel of a guy called Mike The Cop? According to him, this is all just overblown and there is no policing problem in the USA.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.

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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby skb12172 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:56 am

JKosprey wrote:
MarkD wrote:It is kinda silly that cops often fail to perform a task my mail-man handles just fine every day, i.e. making sure you're at the right frikkin' house.


I will say, as an EMS provider, sometimes it is really effing hard to find the correct address. Way too many people fail to properly number their houses, and sometimes the number/street config doesn't make sense (Like an "smith" street address that actually needs to be entered off of "main". However, generally, I agree, and I expect more thoroughness from the folks who are supposed to find and capture folks with anything up to and including lethal force. Especially with all of the tech and recon available today....there's zero excuse for hitting the wrong house in a planned raid.

I had the same problem when I delivered pizzas at night. If I worked it out as a kid with no resources, and without killing any dogs, they should be able to do the same.
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Re: Police and the 2nd Amendment

Postby g-man » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:31 am

JKosprey wrote:... in a planned raid.


Here's where the situation fundamentally breaks down: you assume they actually planned this. No-notice emergency response not being able to find a place is understandable. But no-notice in this case means for the suspect, not the cops involved. Or maybe not so much in this case...
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