The Trump Administration: Day One

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The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Termite » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:59 pm

TTP is gone.

The "Mexico City" Abortion policy, a rule that prevents federal money from going to international aid groups that provide abortions or offer information about the procedure, is re-instituted.

Freeze on federal hiring, except for employees involved with national security such as members of the military.

LINKY

I wonder what tomorrow will bring........ :lol:
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby scipioafricanus » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:07 am

Thumbs up!
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:02 am

Termite wrote:TTP is gone.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring........ :lol:


Back tracking on the immigration front. :x

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/44 ... aca-or-not

Hopefully, this is just a strategic blip, but I fear not.

That said, Trump cannot disappoint me, because I do not expect much from him.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby slowpoke » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:17 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Termite wrote:TTP is gone.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring........ :lol:


Back tracking on the immigration front. :x

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/44 ... aca-or-not

Hopefully, this is just a strategic blip, but I fear not.

That said, Trump cannot disappoint me, because I do not expect much from him.

National Review has blown their credability going after Trump during the election. I think infowars has a better reputation at this point.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Steamforger » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:38 am

And there goes my chance for a GS-12 this year. Because having gone through the trouble of obtaining the architecture degree and making $64k is excessive to a man with billions in property and $$$.

I'll probably start looking into an Afghanistan tour in anticipation of this not making the 90 day cancellation.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:14 pm

slowpoke wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Termite wrote:TTP is gone.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring........ :lol:


Back tracking on the immigration front. :x

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/44 ... aca-or-not

Hopefully, this is just a strategic blip, but I fear not.

That said, Trump cannot disappoint me, because I do not expect much from him.

National Review has blown their credability going after Trump during the election. I think infowars has a better reputation at this point.


It very much remains to be seen if NR was wrong or right concern Trump. My guess is that by the end of his administration they will be looking fairly prescient, but I hope I am wrong (as, at least per what they say, do they).

For what it is worth, NR has been hawks for less immigration since the 80's and a big part of their opposing Trump was that he did not seem particularly serious about the issue even though he made it the centerpiece of the campaign. The particular fear is that his fecklessness will discredit the position; I happen to think that is a viable concern.

They are not a party mouthpiece, their goal is to advance conservatism (a particular version of it, AKA fusion conservatism). Trump is no conservative, so they opposed him in the election. (As a staff editorial position, Mark Kirkorian who wrote this piece is actually a Trump supporter and was listed as a Trump advisor on immigration in some places.)

In any case, this is not new for NR, they opposed Nixon too and refused to endorse him. This makes sense to me, if your goal is to advance a point of view, and you do not think the nominee will advance that goal, why endorse him?

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby randy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:32 pm

slowpoke wrote:National Review has blown their credability going after Trump during the election. I think infowars has a better reputation at this point.


Not so much.

NR is and has always presented themselves as a source of commentary and opinion, not as a news source. They have a (well stated) point of view on events and are up front about it.

infowars purports to be a news source bringing out THE TRUTH!!!111!!!.

NR writers exist in our universe. I'm not so sure about Alex Jones.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby First Shirt » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:44 pm

After the election, I was in the "Oh, 5H!T, what have we done?" camp. Now, I'm cautiously optimistic. If he can do one-tenth of the things he wants to do, I'll be tickled to death, and will vote for him in 2020. The simple fact that he's infuriated and marginalized the MSM is almost worth the aggravation he causes. I think (again with the cautious optimism) that he'll do okay. Of course, considering the last president, who didn't just lower the bar, he laid it on the floor, he can't do much worse, can he?
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:00 am


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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby randy » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:11 am

Let's all keep in mind that back tracking and neglecting core constituents by Trump still beats active pursuit of statist evil by Hillary.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:44 am

randy wrote:Let's all keep in mind that back tracking and neglecting core constituents by Trump still beats active pursuit of statist evil by Hillary.


I hope so, but that remains to be seen. the worst case scenario is that the administration is a disaster, the Left gets all of its wish list and conservatives get blamed for everything bad that happens because "he was a conservative" even though he isn't. This is known as the Richard Nixon scenario.

I want him do well and right but I am not prepared to give my stamp of approval 4 days in.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby blackeagle603 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:26 am

meh, plan was and remains, start by going after the crookedest and most dangerous of illegals first. So the Dreamers thing is sort of academic. In the meantime he looks softer and defuses some opposition. There are many who have been terrorized into believing they'll be deported even though they've been naturalized as citizens or have full legal immigrant status.

Missionary friend in Ensenada says you can't find a house to rent or buy or hardly a lot to build on or place an RV on down there. They're suddenly full up with people who've self deported and Ensenada is busting at the seams.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:35 pm


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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Steamforger » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:56 pm

I wonder who he thinks is going to run that wall project???? Because DHS isn't going to. They're a law enforcement agency, not an AE agency.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Netpackrat » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:13 am

I'm beginning to think the wall is mostly meant to be a big, visible target to distract from the real work going on behind the scenes. In other words, he's stolen Obama's playbook to use for good. And in 4 years when his opponents try to use the fact that he promised a wall (that didn't really materialize as promised) against him, he'll use statistics showing illegal immigration and related crime being way down to beat them silly.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Weetabix » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:53 am

Steamforger wrote:I wonder who he thinks is going to run that wall project???? Because DHS isn't going to. They're a law enforcement agency, not an AE agency.

I volunteer you. You do that sort of thing, don't you? :mrgreen:
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Jered » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:29 am

Oh, hey, look

Seattle could lose $85 million by remaining a sanctuary city.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Steamforger » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:40 am

Can, and we probably will end up with it. The VA and that hospital in Aurora is a shining example of a non AE agency trying to manage its own construction projects and failing spectacularly. Then our guys go in, take it away from them, cut it to the bones to enable it to be finished and are perceived as the bad guys by everybody involved because of cuts. Like how that hospital's glass covered grand entrance is now sheet metal.

My point here is the agencies have been not backfilling retirees and not hiring if they don't have to for several years now. My district was nearly 900 people several years ago. I believe we're a little over 600 now. If there is a long term hiring freeze and people keep retiring or quitting, we're going to be stretched pretty thin. My office of 6 is already covering 22,000 contractor exposure hours per month. If I lose 3 to retirement, which I expect to in the next couple of years, I'll have 1 inspector for that same projected rate of work. Then add in our part of the hundred billion in new projects the next year.

No one builds new infrastructure on spec. A company like Skanska or Turner doesn't build a new wastewater treatment plant and hang a for sale sign on it. Infrastructure is paid for by tax dollars and AE agencies develop, write, award, and manage those contracts through to closeout.

Trump's hiring freeze and his 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan largely contradict each other.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby scipioafricanus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:30 pm

Well besides a hiring freeze, they might want to look at the hires within the last 90 days or so. A lot of Fed agencies have been trying to get people in before the change of power in order to keep their budgets at a certain level. A friend of mine just got hired a week before the swearing in for this very reason (of course he wasn't "told" this).
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:59 pm

Steamforger wrote:I wonder who he thinks is going to run that wall project???? Because DHS isn't going to. They're a law enforcement agency, not an AE agency.


If I wanted to do it, I would just point the Seabees at it, give them a budget and tell them message to Garcia.

In any regard though, while walls are nice and all, the demand side is more important. Mandatory E-Verify and high penalties for knowingly hiring illegals would fix the situation much more quickly and not require nearly as much spending.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby blackeagle603 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:09 pm

Steamforger wrote:I wonder who he thinks is going to run that wall project???? Because DHS isn't going to. They're a law enforcement agency, not an AE agency.


General John Kelly, head of DHS.


...and they did a dandy job with the 14 miles put thru the San Dog/TJ sector. That's said to be the prototype for the longer sections. That was originally championed by Duncan Hunter the Elder (after a citizen uprising started on Roger Hedgecock's talk radio show that led to Friday night "Light up the Border" events).

History lesson

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby blackeagle603 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:46 pm

If I wanted to do it, I would just point the Seabees at it, give them a budget and tell them message to Garcia.


From your mouth to God's ears.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Jericho941 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:22 pm

Vonz90 wrote:tell them message to Garcia.


The screed from some jerk publisher who was mad he didn't have psychic underlings? :?

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:42 pm

Jericho941 wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:tell them message to Garcia.


The screed from some jerk publisher who was mad he didn't have psychic underlings? :?


If you want to take it as a negative, then you don't understand it.

There are two parts of it, get people in jobs that you can trust to do a job without micromanaging them, and then give them the goals and let them do it.

What is not to like (unless you a tasked based kind of guy, which is fine, but limiting.)

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Jericho941 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:47 am

Vonz90 wrote:If you want to take it as a negative, then you don't understand it.

There are two parts of it, get people in jobs that you can trust to do a job without micromanaging them, and then give them the goals and let them do it.

What is not to like (unless you a tasked based kind of guy, which is fine, but limiting.)

It rang hollow based on past observation in the workplace. I've seen too many leaders assign a vague task and then blow up when they're asked for clarification. The end result is that people try to "show initiative" by not seeking clarification, and then the leader is once again left dumbfounded and angry that they didn't get exactly what they wanted. They don't learn, and in their mind it's because they're the ones dealing with hapless idiots who can't or won't learn, the buffoons that can only be motivated by pitching a fit. Meanwhile, other people in their position get efficient work out of the same employees without behaving as though asking about the task at hand is a personal affront.

Taking the encyclopedia scenario, for example, I find it more likely to play out more like this:

"Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of some Renaissance fellow. His name starts with C-O.” And because the clerk has worked with you for fifteen minutes, he knows he had better quietly say, “Yes, sir,” and go do the task. Then, of course, the blithering idiot comes back to you with a memorandum about the life of Copernicus, not Correggio like you clearly wanted. On top of that, he's submitted it in the standard company format, not the format you personally prefer. Good help is impossible to find.


Maybe I've just had exceptionally bad luck with employers and Hubbard had exceptionally bad luck with employees. I would certainly agree that employees that show initiative and don't need to be micromanaged are good (required, even), but I strongly disagree with the notion that they're that hard to find, or nigh-impossible to cultivate. I certainly didn't get anything about allowing employees to accomplish set goals from the essay, since it seems fully dedicated to whining about how he needs to hire somebody to club and kick employees to make them useful.

Although, there is something personally amusing about this line:

My heart goes out to the man who does his work when the “boss” is away, as well as when he is home.


...because I've had a job where my supervisor and I had to devise ways to get out of the office (or get the boss out of the office) just to accomplish anything! That boss didn't like questions either, but he certainly loved to re-task you when you were in full momentum on something else. Squadron leadership thought the office was full of goldbrickers and it seemed we were always in the hot seat, until the boss went on leave. Then they saw just how much the two of us could get done on our own and they loved us. Eventually said boss PCS'd and we kept everything running smoothly without him. Sometimes I miss that facility job, but it was only supposed to be temporary from the beginning, and it was back to the line.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby HTRN » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:42 am

Netpackrat wrote: he's stolen Obama's playbook

Obama "borrowed" it from Bill and Hillary. :ugeek:
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Steamforger » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:10 am

blackeagle603 wrote:
If I wanted to do it, I would just point the Seabees at it, give them a budget and tell them message to Garcia.


From your mouth to God's ears.


I can see that working out well. DHS doing 14 miles may have worked out well. DHS doing 2,000 miles while administering the contract(s)?

Color me skeptical. At least skeptical about it happening in a way that won't create deficiencies, blown budgets, blown schedules, poor quality, or claims arising from shot down Requests for Equitable Adjustments.

But, yeah, I can completely see deploying some Seabees or Engineering Battalions, or both, in order to get that done.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby randy » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:14 am

Be a good annual training deployment for Guard and Reserve engineer units.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby blackeagle603 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:31 am

Be an even better work party for folks being sent packing south of the border.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Windy Wilson » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:28 am

Back to the Message to Garcia bit, I read "How I Got the Message to Garcia" by Colonel Andrews Summers Rowan. To carry the metaphor past where Elbert Hubbard intended it to go, Colonel, (then Lieutenant -- promotions came slowly in the 1880's and 1890's) was placed in the hands of rebel cavalry. He was essentially an envelope for the message, although he missed being stabbed one night thanks his quick reaction to a gunshot that roused him out of a sound sleep. Hubbard portrays the message delivery something on the order of Stanley meeting Livingston on the Limpopo. "You'll know him when you see him, so go into the jungle."
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:15 pm

Jericho941 wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:If you want to take it as a negative, then you don't understand it.

There are two parts of it, get people in jobs that you can trust to do a job without micromanaging them, and then give them the goals and let them do it.

What is not to like (unless you a tasked based kind of guy, which is fine, but limiting.)

It rang hollow based on past observation in the workplace. I've seen too many leaders assign a vague task and then blow up when they're asked for clarification. The end result is that people try to "show initiative" by not seeking clarification, and then the leader is once again left dumbfounded and angry that they didn't get exactly what they wanted. They don't learn, and in their mind it's because they're the ones dealing with hapless idiots who can't or won't learn, the buffoons that can only be motivated by pitching a fit. Meanwhile, other people in their position get efficient work out of the same employees without behaving as though asking about the task at hand is a personal affront.

Taking the encyclopedia scenario, for example, I find it more likely to play out more like this:

"Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of some Renaissance fellow. His name starts with C-O.” And because the clerk has worked with you for fifteen minutes, he knows he had better quietly say, “Yes, sir,” and go do the task. Then, of course, the blithering idiot comes back to you with a memorandum about the life of Copernicus, not Correggio like you clearly wanted. On top of that, he's submitted it in the standard company format, not the format you personally prefer. Good help is impossible to find.


Maybe I've just had exceptionally bad luck with employers and Hubbard had exceptionally bad luck with employees. I would certainly agree that employees that show initiative and don't need to be micromanaged are good (required, even), but I strongly disagree with the notion that they're that hard to find, or nigh-impossible to cultivate. I certainly didn't get anything about allowing employees to accomplish set goals from the essay, since it seems fully dedicated to whining about how he needs to hire somebody to club and kick employees to make them useful.


What you describe is a miss application of the concept. The idea is that having told someone what to do, they should be able to figure out the how. It is basically objective based leadership boiled down.

It is, I think, harder to find than you may think especially for more complex or ambiguous projects. I do not know for certain, but I imagine that considering the changes in society since then, it is quite likely that it was much harder to find such people then.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Netpackrat » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:55 pm

What will Orange Santa bring us next week?
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby AlaskaTRX » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:19 pm

Netpackrat wrote:What will Orange Santa bring us next week?


I don't know which is better - that he is fulfilling his campaign promises or the left's heads exploding in the aftermath?!?!? :lol:

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Denis » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:38 pm

Hard to disapprove of this behavior:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 1-15-54-04

Makes him look more presidential in his first month than the previous guy managed in eight years.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby FelixEstrella » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:47 pm

Denis wrote:Hard to disapprove of this behavior:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 1-15-54-04

Makes him look more presidential in his first month than the previous guy managed in eight years.


Much as I applaud this action, hopefully his policies won't result in him being too busy in this regard.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby slowpoke » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:51 am

Well after one year of President Trump, he has accomplished more of a conservative agenda than Reagan did in his first year, even though the Republican party has been fighting him the whole way. The corruption of the previous administration is coming to light, something I gave only 30% odds of. Honestly no other candidate could have done as much as he has in face of the “resistance.”
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Rich » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:08 am

Until the opposition is figuratively swinging from the lampposts (not literally, though I really wouldn't mind), said opposition can still recover.

We need convictions , on the record convictions. The higher placed in the opposition the better. :twisted:
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby First Shirt » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:17 am

I think I'd be okay with the wrong-doers swinging from lampposts.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby slowpoke » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:20 am

Take with a salt lick, but suposedly the number of federal sealed indictments is over six times the normal in the past year. Normally there are a couple thousand per year and over ten thousand last year. Just rumor i’ve read haven’t verified myself.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/updated-sealed-indictments-4289-all-between-1030-and-1122-nothing-like-this-has-ever-happened-in-the-history-of-the-us/
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:14 pm

Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:19 pm

Greg wrote:Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.


I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:14 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.


I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


You apparently have no idea what Jeff Flake has been up to. He's gone full SJW. Other NeverTrumpers have been similar.

When NeverTrumpers go publicly full bore Prog, to the left of Schumer, it doesn't leave me doubting and questioning TRUMP.

It makes me say a quiet prayer of thanks for outing them. Seriously, did you just not know?
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:24 am

Vonz90 wrote:Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


Could go that way, but the Dem Cong generic ballot advantage has fallen off the table. However, I'm not sure that translates into good news for the Rep Cong Lite. I'd say the cards are in the air right now.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:21 am

As an aside, what Conservative principles, exactly, are at play here?

https://constitution.com/arizona-senato ... egals/amp/

Unless 'oppose whatever Trump says' has been promoted to the status of 'principle', which I deny. There is a REASON Flake is retiring, and his approval rate isn't below 20% because he's too *Conservative* for his constituents.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:41 am

Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.


I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


You apparently have no idea what Jeff Flake has been up to. He's gone full SJW. Other NeverTrumpers have been similar.

When NeverTrumpers go publicly full bore Prog, to the left of Schumer, it doesn't leave me doubting and questioning TRUMP.

It makes me say a quiet prayer of thanks for outing them. Seriously, did you just not know?


Not a Flake fan and I am aware of where he is on I'll- frankly glade he is clearing out. He has been a pretty consistent obnoxiously open boarder libertarian at least as long as I have been following him.

I think you have to divide the Never Trump factions based on where they are coming from. There are certainly some who came from the left - but there were a lot of them (me include) who are coming from the position that he is not conservative or really pro anything but himself and in the long run he is likely to do more harm to the cause jam good. Again- I hope that it works out but I this give minutes I think the Dems are glad that Trump is POTUS rather than a new effective executive (granted they would rather have Hillary, but she was going to lose to just about anyone.)

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Netpackrat » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:26 am

If you're going to post with your phone at least turn the damned auto-correct off. :lol:
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:32 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.


I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


You apparently have no idea what Jeff Flake has been up to. He's gone full SJW. Other NeverTrumpers have been similar.

When NeverTrumpers go publicly full bore Prog, to the left of Schumer, it doesn't leave me doubting and questioning TRUMP.

It makes me say a quiet prayer of thanks for outing them. Seriously, did you just not know?


Not a Flake fan and I am aware of where he is on I'll- frankly glade he is clearing out. He has been a pretty consistent obnoxiously open boarder libertarian at least as long as I have been following him.

I think you have to divide the Never Trump factions based on where they are coming from. There are certainly some who came from the left - but there were a lot of them (me include) who are coming from the position that he is not conservative or really pro anything but himself and in the long run he is likely to do more harm to the cause jam good. Again- I hope that it works out but I this give minutes I think the Dems are glad that Trump is POTUS rather than a new effective executive (granted they would rather have Hillary, but she was going to lose to just about anyone.)


The ones who aren't showing pure Left, all they have is class warfare. Their dedication to said class warfare is commendable. For a Marxist. Not an American. Sorry.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:10 am

Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:Interesting to come back after a while, and see what held up and what didn't.

The NeverTrump crowd isn't looking good. Seems they were owned (as in, had a hidden master) even worse than we thought possible. How else to explain the, um, antics, of Jeff Flake and Bill Kristol and such?

Outing them has been as big a service as any Trump has performed.


I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


You apparently have no idea what Jeff Flake has been up to. He's gone full SJW. Other NeverTrumpers have been similar.

When NeverTrumpers go publicly full bore Prog, to the left of Schumer, it doesn't leave me doubting and questioning TRUMP.

It makes me say a quiet prayer of thanks for outing them. Seriously, did you just not know?


Not a Flake fan and I am aware of where he is on I'll- frankly glade he is clearing out. He has been a pretty consistent obnoxiously open boarder libertarian at least as long as I have been following him.

I think you have to divide the Never Trump factions based on where they are coming from. There are certainly some who came from the left - but there were a lot of them (me include) who are coming from the position that he is not conservative or really pro anything but himself and in the long run he is likely to do more harm to the cause jam good. Again- I hope that it works out but I this give minutes I think the Dems are glad that Trump is POTUS rather than a new effective executive (granted they would rather have Hillary, but she was going to lose to just about anyone.)


The ones who aren't showing pure Left, all they have is class warfare. Their dedication to said class warfare is commendable. For a Marxist. Not an American. Sorry.


Stick your fingers in your ear scream if you want (which is what your statement is) but it doesn't make Trump an effective executive or a conservative.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:01 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
I find this statement to be bizarre. Why would anyone need "hidden masters" to dislike Trump, especially those above who are being entirely consistent with their policy views? (... and no, I do not dislike some of the specific things he is doing, but I could say the same thing of any other Republican President.)

The fact is that we have been truly blessed by the incompetence of the Dem "resistance". Had they decided to reach across the aisle to him (as he has signaled repeatedly that he wants to do) they probably would have gotten 90% of their wish list from him.

Hope I am wrong, but the midterms are looking like they will be a bloodbath for the GOP


You apparently have no idea what Jeff Flake has been up to. He's gone full SJW. Other NeverTrumpers have been similar.

When NeverTrumpers go publicly full bore Prog, to the left of Schumer, it doesn't leave me doubting and questioning TRUMP.

It makes me say a quiet prayer of thanks for outing them. Seriously, did you just not know?


Not a Flake fan and I am aware of where he is on I'll- frankly glade he is clearing out. He has been a pretty consistent obnoxiously open boarder libertarian at least as long as I have been following him.

I think you have to divide the Never Trump factions based on where they are coming from. There are certainly some who came from the left - but there were a lot of them (me include) who are coming from the position that he is not conservative or really pro anything but himself and in the long run he is likely to do more harm to the cause jam good. Again- I hope that it works out but I this give minutes I think the Dems are glad that Trump is POTUS rather than a new effective executive (granted they would rather have Hillary, but she was going to lose to just about anyone.)


The ones who aren't showing pure Left, all they have is class warfare. Their dedication to said class warfare is commendable. For a Marxist. Not an American. Sorry.


Stick your fingers in your ear scream if you want (which is what your statement is) but it doesn't make Trump an effective executive or a conservative.


Ummm.....

I don't really care what Trump is. I *care* that he is DELIVERING on promises he made to the conservative base, far more so than anyone had any right to expect.

I *care* that TDS is damaging the Progressive cause and the reputation, stature, and social status of Progressive institutions more than anyone ever has, ever.

You.... Don't. Maybe that's your problem.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:36 am

Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Stick your fingers in your ear scream if you want (which is what your statement is) but it doesn't make Trump an effective executive or a conservative.


Ummm.....

I don't really care what Trump is. I *care* that he is DELIVERING on promises he made to the conservative base, far more so than anyone had any right to expect.

I *care* that TDS is damaging the Progressive cause and the reputation, stature, and social status of Progressive institutions more than anyone ever has, ever.

You.... Don't. Maybe that's your problem.


Dude, we just lost a Senate seat in fracking Alabama, but sure - everything is going swimmingly - I am sure the lefties are feeling really hurt now. If stuff like that doesn't worry you I don't know what would.

If conservatives end up in the wilderness out of this for 10 years (like say post Watergate) then the country is likely permanently fucked. Maybe not realizing that risk is your problem.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby randy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:28 am

Caution Flag guys
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby First Shirt » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:21 am

We lost the Senate seat in Alabama because Bitch McConjob wouldn't back the Republican that could have won the election (Mo Brooks), he backed his buddy, who lost the primary to a certifiable nut job.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Greg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:05 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Stick your fingers in your ear scream if you want (which is what your statement is) but it doesn't make Trump an effective executive or a conservative.


Ummm.....

I don't really care what Trump is. I *care* that he is DELIVERING on promises he made to the conservative base, far more so than anyone had any right to expect.

I *care* that TDS is damaging the Progressive cause and the reputation, stature, and social status of Progressive institutions more than anyone ever has, ever.

You.... Don't. Maybe that's your problem.


Dude, we just lost a Senate seat in fracking Alabama, but sure - everything is going swimmingly - I am sure the lefties are feeling really hurt now. If stuff like that doesn't worry you I don't know what would.

If conservatives end up in the wilderness out of this for 10 years (like say post Watergate) then the country is likely permanently fucked. Maybe not realizing that risk is your problem.


Tell me, when I talk about NeverTrump class warfare, do you honestly have any idea what I'm talking about?

It's not like you to pick a fight and do so *badly*.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby slowpoke » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:36 pm

Conservatism is dead. It has been dead for a while. Just watch the old GOP conserve Obamacare in eatly 2017, then ask yourself, “what has conservatism conserved?”
I know its tough but Trump just moved the political landscape under everyones feet. Right now its not leftest vs conservative, but globalist versus nationalist. If you want to keep your national sovergnity you should back the nationalist, and that would be Trump. Also don’t forget that Bush Sr. was a globalist with his New World Order, and boosting the UN’s power over our national defense and foreign policy.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:52 pm

First Shirt wrote:We lost the Senate seat in Alabama because Bitch McConjob wouldn't back the Republican that could have won the election (Mo Brooks), he backed his buddy, who lost the primary to a certifiable nut job.


Pretty much that. Roy Moore is a walking, talking monument to his own ego. For all his numerous flaws, Moore still would have been better than the Lao Donk who got the seat, but Brooks probably would have been better yet.

That can be laid at the feet of the establishment: McConnell, Graham, McCain, and their ilk. Look at what has been coming out of the pie holes of supposed conservative stalwarts and thought leaders since before the 2016 election.

Bret Stephens from the WSJ wanted Field Marshal Rodham (hat tip: Billy Beck) to carry all 50 states so that Republican voters would "learn their lesson." Just think about that for a minute. Personally, I can't think about it for more than a minute, because RCOB (and I'm not even registered as a Republicrat any more).

Bill Kristol tweeted that he would rather be ruled by the Deep State than by Trump, and then raced to be the first aboard the Winfrey Express (whether there is one or not).

These are hardly the only examples.

I was not much of a Trump fan either. Still ain't. But there are two major data points that have my attention:

1. From the day he first won a primary, he has made all the right heads explode.
2. He basically said, "Hold my beer," walked off the sidelines into a game rigged against him in every way anyone thought they could get away with...and won.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Dude, he is POTUS- head if the bloody party and all that comes with it; he is the establishment.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Rich » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:38 pm

I'm waiting for the first atlas to be printed naming the USA as Trumpland USA.

It could happen.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:30 pm

Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Greg wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:
Stick your fingers in your ear scream if you want (which is what your statement is) but it doesn't make Trump an effective executive or a conservative.


Ummm.....

I don't really care what Trump is. I *care* that he is DELIVERING on promises he made to the conservative base, far more so than anyone had any right to expect.

I *care* that TDS is damaging the Progressive cause and the reputation, stature, and social status of Progressive institutions more than anyone ever has, ever.

You.... Don't. Maybe that's your problem.


Dude, we just lost a Senate seat in fracking Alabama, but sure - everything is going swimmingly - I am sure the lefties are feeling really hurt now. If stuff like that doesn't worry you I don't know what would.

If conservatives end up in the wilderness out of this for 10 years (like say post Watergate) then the country is likely permanently fucked. Maybe not realizing that risk is your problem.


Tell me, when I talk about NeverTrump class warfare, do you honestly have any idea what I'm talking about?

It's not like you to pick a fight and do so *badly*.


We are definitely talking past each other, likely because "Never Trump" means different things depending on the context. In the end it is more of an election thing but it does capture a point of view or actually several related ones that comes down to is he going to be a disaster when this is all said or done. You have latched on to those who are coming from the left, I am pointing out that there are more than a few coming from the right.

Certainly there are some not really conservatives who are showing their true colors- had that with Bush and Obama too. I don't really care about them because none of them are particularly surprising to me. Politicians will always disappoint you as they say.

Sure, he has the Obama quality of being good at trolling the opposition. I don't consider that a positive of itself. Can he build and lead a coalition? I have seen no evidence that he can and a lot that is quite the opposite. Building purity is how you go to electoral minority. A lot of game to be played and I will be thrilled if I am wrong, but unfortunately I don't think I am.

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Netpackrat » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:22 am

MiddleAgedKen wrote:That can be laid at the feet of the establishment: McConnell, Graham, McCain, and their ilk. Look at what has been coming out of the pie holes of supposed conservative stalwarts and thought leaders since before the 2016 election.


At this point you can make a pretty sound argument that the above prefer to be the minority party.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby BDK » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:09 pm

Just because the DOJ is still barely staffed, as the Senate will not vote on Trump’s nominees?

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:51 pm

Netpackrat wrote:
MiddleAgedKen wrote:That can be laid at the feet of the establishment: McConnell, Graham, McCain, and their ilk. Look at what has been coming out of the pie holes of supposed conservative stalwarts and thought leaders since before the 2016 election.


At this point you can make a pretty sound argument that the above prefer to be the minority party.


McConnell could be argued, but when has anyone the the right of the NY Times called Graham or McCain a conservative?

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Weetabix » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:40 pm

Vonz90 wrote:Dude, he is POTUS- head if the bloody party and all that comes with it; he is the establishment.

I'm not sure that's true. His name doesn't appear here.

Given how hard so much of the party opposed him during the primary, I kind of doubt they changed their tunes wholeheartedly after his election. Winning doesn't magically change people's minds and agenda.

I sure have enjoyed watching heads explode.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:12 pm

Weetabix wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:Dude, he is POTUS- head if the bloody party and all that comes with it; he is the establishment.

I'm not sure that's true. His name doesn't appear here.

Given how hard so much of the party opposed him during the primary, I kind of doubt they changed their tunes wholeheartedly after his election. Winning doesn't magically change people's minds and agenda.

I sure have enjoyed watching heads explode.


Um, you do know that Ronna Romney McDaniel was his pick as RNC Chairman right? The POTUS picks the GOP Chairman, it is the way that works (technically there is an election, but it has never not been the POTUS pick with a GOP POTUS.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/us/p ... google.com

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Weetabix » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Vonz90 wrote:Um, you do know that Ronna Romney McDaniel was his pick as RNC Chairman right? The POTUS picks the GOP Chairman, it is the way that works (technically there is an election, but it has never not been the POTUS pick with a GOP POTUS.)

:lol: Whoops! Mea culpa.

I'm still not convinced that the party has been purged of Trump resisters, though.

Before we get sidetracked off of more important issues (not sure that could ever happen), I should admit that this is a minor point that's probably not worth arguing. It was just a thought.
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Vonz90 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Weetabix wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:Um, you do know that Ronna Romney McDaniel was his pick as RNC Chairman right? The POTUS picks the GOP Chairman, it is the way that works (technically there is an election, but it has never not been the POTUS pick with a GOP POTUS.)

:lol: Whoops! Mea culpa.

I'm still not convinced that the party has been purged of Trump resisters, though.

Before we get sidetracked off of more important issues (not sure that could ever happen), I should admit that this is a minor point that's probably not worth arguing. It was just a thought.


Well, why would you want to "purge" the Trump resistors (I do not recall it happening with either set of Bush resistors or Reagan resistors either). Certainly, he won the nomination / election so he gets a very big say in how the party moves, that is the way it is. But there are a whole lot of other elected officials who won their elections, plus other constituencies, etc. I think making the whole party conform on a personal loyalty matter is a good way to drive the party into the dirt.

I think the big issue with the non-direction of the part has to do with the Trump loyalty requirement too, just not directly. With prior Presidents, they had an agenda to one degree or another and even those who were not on their side directly in a personal way, they could lean on those who had a similar agenda to get things done. With Trump, it is about him, so he has an inner circle (and outer circle mostly) made up of very competing ideas, but as long as they are loyal to him he is okay with it. I cannot see how that would not make it more difficult to get the whole executing in one direction, which is a lot of what we see.

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Weetabix
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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby Weetabix » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 pm

Vonz90 wrote:Well, why would you want to "purge" the Trump resistors (I do not recall it happening with either set of Bush resistors or Reagan resistors either).

Oh, my bad for being too concise. I'm not saying it should happen. I like a bit of ruckus and friction in government. It slows them down. I thought you were implying above that it had happened when you called him "the establishment." I was just thinking that there's a pretty big GOP machine still rolling through momentum that POTUS probably doesn't control to the degree the guy in the street would think he did.
Certainly, he won the nomination / election so he gets a very big say in how the party moves, that is the way it is. But there are a whole lot of other elected officials who won their elections, plus other constituencies, etc. I think making the whole party conform on a personal loyalty matter is a good way to drive the party into the dirt.

I'd agree with that. But I think they've been working to drive it into the dirt before he came aboard (if he is, indeed, aboard).

I think the big issue with the non-direction of the part has to do with the Trump loyalty requirement too, just not directly. With prior Presidents, they had an agenda to one degree or another and even those who were not on their side directly in a personal way, they could lean on those who had a similar agenda to get things done. With Trump, it is about him, so he has an inner circle (and outer circle mostly) made up of very competing ideas, but as long as they are loyal to him he is okay with it. I cannot see how that would not make it more difficult to get the whole executing in one direction, which is a lot of what we see.

I'd have to think about that, but some of that may be appearances. I think he's like a magician, waving one hand to distract the press while he does the real stuff with the other. See point 8 in Trump’s First Year: First, the Good News from National Review. I'm fairly pleased with all of the list, but 8 seems to address your point. What do you think?
Note to self: start reading sig lines. They're actually quite amusing. :D

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Re: The Trump Administration: Day One

Postby First Shirt » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:28 pm

From a "boots on the ground" perspective, I'm pretty happy with the way Trump is going. Is it perfect? No, of course not ( I'm not running the country!)

But right now, my company is booked SOLID through the end of March, we're 90% booked for April, about 75% for May, and we're taking orders for June already (mostly steady customers who are trying to get ahead of anticipated price increases), my 401K is doing great, and I'm bringing home about an extra $50 a week because of the tax reform. Our annual profit sharing check, which comes out in March, is expected to be the best it's been in 10 years or so, and things are looking pretty good on the home front.

SILs who are in the service (one Navy, one Marine) say that things are getting better already, with money suddenly becoming available for parts, maintenance, and training. And my .mil retirement check was about $40 bucks ahead of the previous one.

It's sorta like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time.
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
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