Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

This forum is for discussion of politics, diplomacy, law, and justice
User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7628
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by Jered » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:47 am

“These individuals have the opportunity to fully serve in the Wisconsin State Patrol, they have the full opportunity to serve in the United States military, but sadly they’re unable to serve us in our own police force,” Steffen said. “That’s why we’re here today, to ensure these individuals have that opportunity going forward.”
https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/madison/ne ... -as-police

Is it legal for them to serve in the military or as State Troopers over there? It seems like that would flat out be a violation of 18 US Code 922's prohibition on aliens that are unlawfully present in the United States receiving firearms. I'd hope that someone in charge of firearms issuance in one of these departments would bring this issue up.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
randy
Posts: 7771
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:33 pm
Location: EM79VQ

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by randy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:13 am

In the military, yes. It's a pathway to gaining citizenship for some. ('course you're not going to find them in Intel or Missile Launch duties for instance. More likely admin, logistics, or Poor Bloody Infantry). Don't know the exact details and requirements these days.

Have no clue as to State cops.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7628
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by Jered » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:20 pm

In the military, don't they generally have some sort of actual immigration status, other than the government agreeing not to deport them?
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
D5CAV
Posts: 2211
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by D5CAV » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Jered wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:20 pm
In the military, don't they generally have some sort of actual immigration status, other than the government agreeing not to deport them?
Back in the day, one of the OCs in my OCS training platoon was from the Philippines. He was FOB when he joined the US Army. He was 11B IIRC.

OCS requires citizenship, so he was already in for almost 5 years, on his second enlistment, when he got accepted to OCS. After his first enlistment, he was able to apply for US citizenship, which was granted.

Requirements: Show HS diploma or GED equivalent, pass US Army test (if you can meet 6th grade academic curriculum, you can pass that test), pass US Army medical, get through Basic Training and AIT, and don't get discharged during your 3 year enlistment. Oh yeah, you need to "habla English". Drill instructors don't give bilingual orders.

Whenever someone whines about giving "deserving young people a path to citizenship", after I take a few deep breaths to lower my blood pressure, I tell them, "We already have a path to citizenship for young people. It's called the US Army. After all the years I spent in the US Army, if they think 3 years of service is too big a price to pay for citizenship, they can F### off!"

For comparison, the French also have a similar path to citizenship in the French Foreign Legion, but that requires 10 years of service for French citizenship. If every DACA isn't at the US Army recruiting center, they should just self-deport.

Once they are through with their 3 year enlistment and have their citizenship, I'm all for them attending police academy and applying for LEO jobs, applying to OCS, or whatever else they want to do.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7628
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by Jered » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:04 pm

What does FOB mean in this context?

The DACA people probably wouldn't be able to do anything that requires a security clearance and it seems to me that they'd still run into the prohibition on aliens having guns. 8 US Code 1440 where the law you cite resides though, does not seem to have a prohibition on an naturalizing if he was able to honorably serve in the military without lawful immigration status.

I'm still not sure whether a DACA person could serve in the US military.

I actually wouldn't mind some sort of Foreign Legion type program for the US. Of course, then I'm sure that the moonbats would get butthurt that we're only stealing the productive, smart, and motivated people from the shitty turd world countries and that we're exploiting the pore'n'starvin to fight our imperialist wars.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
D5CAV
Posts: 2211
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by D5CAV » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:46 am

Jered wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:04 pm
What does FOB mean in this context?

The DACA people probably wouldn't be able to do anything that requires a security clearance and it seems to me that they'd still run into the prohibition on aliens having guns. 8 US Code 1440 where the law you cite resides though, does not seem to have a prohibition on an naturalizing if he was able to honorably serve in the military without lawful immigration status.

I'm still not sure whether a DACA person could serve in the US military.

I actually wouldn't mind some sort of Foreign Legion type program for the US. Of course, then I'm sure that the moonbats would get butthurt that we're only stealing the productive, smart, and motivated people from the shitty turd world countries and that we're exploiting the pore'n'starvin to fight our imperialist wars.
FOB = Fresh Off the Boat. I think he just walked into a US Army recruiting center when his relatives in the US gave him a trip here for his high school graduation present. I don't think he had ever left the Philippines before that trip.

As far as I know, anyone can join the US Army. If he could walk into a US Army recruiting center with a home address in some province of the Philippines, I don't see why some DACA person with a US address and native English skills wouldn't be able to.

There are not a lot of security clearances in combat arms until you get to NCO ranks. Maybe in some of the MI (Military Intelligence) or signal MOS. Once he got to OCS, he was already a citizen, so no issues there. Just the same background check process that we all had to go through. I'm not sure why someone who is not a citizen couldn't get the clearance as long as they passed the background check. They are pretty invasive. They do make the calls. I know because some people I put down told me they got called, and some of those people were overseas.

We don't have a foreign legion. He was part of active duty Army along with the rest of us. We were all exploited equally in the service of the Empire.

Yeah, his attitude was we were living large compared to what he grew up with. Three meals a day, a bunk, central heating, hot and cold running water; that beat what his hometown had to offer. He was a natural on the FTX (Field Training Exercise), probably because he grew up in the jungle. He was a good guy with good attitude; we could always count on him to pull more than his fair share. OCS required at least 2 year college. He got his at night at a local community college, taking the bus from base, and paying the tuition with his E2 wages. That's a college education the hard way.

I have respect for him. I have no respect for any of the whiny DACAs I see interviewed on CNN.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7628
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by Jered » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:38 am

D5CAV wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:46 am
FOB = Fresh Off the Boat. I think he just walked into a US Army recruiting center when his relatives in the US gave him a trip here for his high school graduation present. I don't think he had ever left the Philippines before that trip.

As far as I know, anyone can join the US Army. If he could walk into a US Army recruiting center with a home address in some province of the Philippines, I don't see why some DACA person with a US address and native English skills wouldn't be able to.

Yeah, his attitude was we were living large compared to what he grew up with. Three meals a day, a bunk, central heating, hot and cold running water; that beat what his hometown had to offer. He was a natural on the FTX (Field Training Exercise), probably because he grew up in the jungle. He was a good guy with good attitude; we could always count on him to pull more than his fair share. OCS required at least 2 year college. He got his at night at a local community college, taking the bus from base, and paying the tuition with his E2 wages. That's a college education the hard way.
It's probably changed some since you were in. They actually have to verify your employment eligibility and stuff, now, I think.

I can actually see how that would work versus someone with a "deferred action," too. In the case of that Filipino, chances are that he said he wanted to visit the US, got a visa, and then entered the United States via a port-of-entry. Typically, the INS (in those days) would admit someone as what's called a B-2 visitor if that person intended to visit the United States and then leave. When he entered the United States, he had immigration status. That actually gave him some options if he wanted to stay in the United States. I can actually see a basis in US immigration law for that guy. I applaud that dude for having the initiative to figure out a way to get here.

DACA recipients are present in the United States without admission or parole. Under US immigration law just about their only option is to leave.

The hangup with the DACA people that I have, though, isn't really with US immigration law. It's with US gun control laws. If they wouldn't pass a NICS check or would have to mark 'Yes' to question 21K on the 4473 which means they are ineligible to own a firearm. It seems like a huge liability to me for a police department to issue a firearm to a DACA person. "Dear Police Department, Your officer who is not legally allowed to own a firearm shot my client. Sincerely, A. Lawyer."
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
D5CAV
Posts: 2211
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by D5CAV » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:06 am

Jered wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:38 am
It's probably changed some since you were in.
Of that, I am certain.

That was back during the reign of the Ronald and Bush 1st, a different time and different country.

I am not an immigration lawyer, so I don't know.

I'm not sure if ability to fill-out a 4473 has anything to do with the US Army. I never filled out a 4473 until I was off active duty. US Army has an even dimmer view of POFs (Personally Owned Firearms) than POVs (Personally Owned Vehicles).

I had a US Army driver's license for my us.gov issued vehicle, an M1 tank, but that was nothing I could register with the DMV. The M2HBs, M240s and M16s we used couldn't be had on 4473s either. You may be correct that LEOs have to actually own their weapons, but in the US Army, all those weapons were owned by U.S. We just borrowed them when Uncle told us to.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
Jered
Posts: 7628
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by Jered » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:58 am

I'm just using a Form 4473 as a convenient list of "prohibited person" factors.

If someone is not allowed to have a firearm, how can that person be allowed to have a job where one of the requirements is to have a firearm? Essentially, it's no different than a police department hiring a felon.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

User avatar
D5CAV
Posts: 2211
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

Re: Wisconsin Wants to hire DACA people as Cops

Post by D5CAV » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:20 am

Jered wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:58 am
I'm just using a Form 4473 as a convenient list of "prohibited person" factors.

If someone is not allowed to have a firearm, how can that person be allowed to have a job where one of the requirements is to have a firearm? Essentially, it's no different than a police department hiring a felon.
AFAIK being a felon prohibits you from enlistment in the US Army. I'm sure there is a similar issue for LEOs.

Again, I can see your point on LEOs, but most of the stuff we used in the US Army is prohibited by mere peasants of the Empire. Yeah, we can go down a rabbit hole on the "militia clause" of the 2nd Amendment, etc., but things like M67 fragmentation grenades are among my favorite things that I had to give up when I left the service. There's not much we had in the US Army that you'll find at a gun shop, and only a little that LEOs get to use.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Post Reply