It is currently Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:03 pm




 Page 1 of 1 [ 33 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beliefs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:20 am 
Good Christ I Need A Life
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 8371
http://www.adfmedia.org/News/PRDetail/4140

Quote:
AUGUSTA, Ga. — Attorneys with the Alliance Defense Fund filed suit against Augusta State University Wednesday on behalf of a counseling student told that her Christian beliefs are unethical and incompatible with the prevailing views of the counseling profession. The student, Jennifer Keeton, has been told to stop sharing her beliefs with others and that she must change her beliefs in order to graduate from the counseling program.

Augusta State ordered Keeton to undergo a re-education plan, in which she must attend “diversity sensitivity training,” complete additional remedial reading, and write papers to describe their impact on her beliefs. If she does not change her beliefs or agree to the plan, the university says it will expel her from the Counselor Education Program.

“A public university student shouldn’t be threatened with expulsion for being a Christian and refusing to publicly renounce her faith, but that’s exactly what’s happening here. Simply put, the university is imposing thought reform,” said ADF Senior Counsel David French. “Abandoning one’s own religious beliefs should not be a precondition at a public university for obtaining a degree. This type of leftist zero-tolerance policy is in place at far too many universities, and it must stop. Jennifer’s only crime was to have the beliefs that she does.

Keeton, 24, is pursuing her master’s degree in counseling at Augusta State. After her professors learned of her biblical beliefs, specifically her views on homosexual conduct, from both classroom discussions and private conversations with other students, the school imposed the re-education plan. Keeton never denigrated anyone in communicating her beliefs but merely stated factually what they were in appropriate contexts.

The plan assails Keeton’s beliefs as inconsistent with the counseling profession and expresses suspicion over “Jen’s ability to be a multiculturally competent counselor, particularly with regard to working with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer/questioning (GLBTQ) populations.” The plan requires her to take steps to change her beliefs through additional assignments and additional “diversity sensitivity training.” It also orders her to “work to increase exposure and interactions with gay populations. One such activity could be attending the Gay Pride Parade in Augusta.”

Each month, Keeton is required to complete a report on how the “remediation” assignments have influenced her beliefs so that faculty can “decide the appropriateness of her continuation in the counseling program.” The plan concludes by noting that “failure to complete all elements of the remediation plan will result in dismissal from the Counselor Education Program.”

ADF attorneys filed the complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in Keeton v. Anderson-Wiley with the U.S. District Court for the District of Georgia. ADF is currently litigating a similar case involving a counseling student at Eastern Michigan University and successfully resolved a case at Missouri State University. Also in litigation is a case involving a Georgia counselor fired by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention because she would not agree to affirm homosexual behavior as morally acceptable.



_________________
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:46 am 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:39 am
Posts: 779
Location: Arizona
There was person from the ADF on Hugh Hewitt's show talking about this this afternoon.

I think the University is in for a royal screwing of the lawyerly kind.



_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MarkHorning
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:01 pm 
Trigger Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:18 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Idaho
Send the dissident thought criminal to the re-education camp immediately!

Image



_________________
Years from now our children and grandchildren living in a 3rd world America will ask "What were you doing on March 21st 2010 and why didn't you stop it?"
--Me

Author of Alone
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:40 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 918
Location: San Diego, CA
Wow. Just Wow.

How can these "intellectual elites" use the terms "diversity" and "tolerance" with a straight face?



_________________
“I want you to remember that no S.O.B. ever won a war by dying for his country. He won by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.” - Gen George S. Patton
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:53 pm 
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:08 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Cornland
I'm more outraged that "Counseling Education" is a graduate program.



_________________
Formerly known as Dr. Feelgood
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:23 pm 
Trigger Junkie

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:41 pm
Posts: 1174
Location: NJ
Somehow, before I opened this thread, I knew the student wasn't a muslim.... :roll:


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:39 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 918
Location: San Diego, CA
rightisright wrote:
Somehow, before I opened this thread, I knew the student wasn't a muslim.... :roll:

Hah! That speaks volumes.



_________________
“I want you to remember that no S.O.B. ever won a war by dying for his country. He won by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.” - Gen George S. Patton
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:27 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 883
Location: Lexington, KY
Yup, of course it wasn't a Muslim. That's an officially approved, protected victim group. Of course, since we haven't quite slid THAT far down the slippery slope yet, I think this gal will come out of this a millionaire...and she should. Better stock up on KY, Augusta State!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:43 pm 
Trigger Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:30 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Mesa, AZ
Does anyone have any information on this that does not come from one of the involved parties? I ask that because there are certain things that the press release here leaves rather vague. For example I would like to know just what Keetons beliefs are and specifically how they impact (or don't) her ability to be a councilor. From this release all I am able to glean is the fact that there is some sort of problem regarding her and homosexuals etc. In the end for this case and the others mentioned at the end of the release, personal morals shouldn't really come into it. They can either do their job professionally or they can't.

Edit: I did some digging and the University demands are starting to look like horsehit. I would still like some more information though. If a gay person comes to her for guidance and her response is "have you tried not being gay" there may be a problem. If she helps the person to the best of her ability within the other persons belief system then I don't see any problem.



_________________
The People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.— Juvenal
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:06 pm 
Trigger Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:32 am
Posts: 1413
Kommander wrote:
If a gay person comes to her for guidance and her response is "have you tried not being gay" there may be a problem. If she helps the person to the best of her ability within the other persons belief system then I don't see any problem.


Interesting. Anything else a person might come to her for counseling, the appropriate, even the required response is, try not doing the things that cause you pain and bad health. Stripped of "therapist speak", that's what they tell people with addictions, including sex addiction. Apparently for someone who is suffering over homosexuality, an addiction to homosexual sex is harder to resist than addiction to heterosexual sex.



_________________
"If you can't fire one accurate shot slowly, you sure can't fire two accurate shots fast."
--Tom Campbell, the champion marksman.

Pacifists are against sticking knives in people, so they demonstrate against hospitals and surgeons. --Windy Wilson
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:31 pm 
Good Christ I Need A Life
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 8371
Kommander wrote:
Does anyone have any information on this that does not come from one of the involved parties? I ask that because there are certain things that the press release here leaves rather vague. For example I would like to know just what Keetons beliefs are and specifically how they impact (or don't) her ability to be a councilor. From this release all I am able to glean is the fact that there is some sort of problem regarding her and homosexuals etc. In the end for this case and the others mentioned at the end of the release, personal morals shouldn't really come into it. They can either do their job professionally or they can't.

Edit: I did some digging and the University demands are starting to look like horsehit. I would still like some more information though. If a gay person comes to her for guidance and her response is "have you tried not being gay" there may be a problem. If she helps the person to the best of her ability within the other persons belief system then I don't see any problem.


Ok but what would that have to do with her getting a degree in counseling?

I agree that it could cause some ethics/professional issues with the APA but those would be once she was licensed, not while she was seeking the degree. For all anyone knows, she is heading toward a career with the catholic church as a counselor...



_________________
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:14 pm 
Case Shiner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:08 am
Posts: 461
Quote:
Ok but what would that have to do with her getting a degree in counseling?

I agree that it could cause some ethics/professional issues with the APA but those would be once she was licensed, not while she was seeking the degree. For all anyone knows, she is heading toward a career with the catholic church as a counselor...


Exactly! It doesn't have jack squat to do with the university. If it needs attention, it's the state licensure board's business to harass her. Somebody stuck their nose where it absolutely does not belong.



_________________
The New and Improved Place Where I Rant: Michael's Soapbox

My full-custom holster page: The Holster Site
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:27 am 
Trigger Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:30 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Mesa, AZ
Windy Wilson wrote:
Interesting. Anything else a person might come to her for counseling, the appropriate, even the required response is, try not doing the things that cause you pain and bad health. Stripped of "therapist speak", that's what they tell people with addictions, including sex addiction. Apparently for someone who is suffering over homosexuality, an addiction to homosexual sex is harder to resist than addiction to heterosexual sex.


In the case of a sex addiction wouldn't the counselor try to get the person to simply have less sex rather than worry about the type of sex? As for the school I suppose this whole thing revolves around whether it is appropriate for a degree issuing agency to deal with potential ethics/professional issues before handing out degrees. However I still lack enough information to be able to tell if there even is a ethics/professional issue, much less what the school should do about it.



_________________
The People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.— Juvenal
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:39 am 
On a list somewhere
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:57 am
Posts: 2195
Location: SoCal
If I'm not mistaken (and I'd hate to break a 30-minute trend), one can typically defer "problem" cases to others. For example, an employee-employer might together decide that sex assault cases might be referred to someone else if the counselor had been a victim of sexual assault herself.



_________________
In a system where ignorance of the law is no defense, the law must be written and knowable.
-The Anarchangel
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:42 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:47 pm
Posts: 8952
Location: San Diego area, People's Republic of Kommiefornia
Unf'ing real. The NUTS *ARE* running the asylum!!



_________________
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:30 am 
On a list somewhere

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:46 pm
Posts: 2478
Workin' beat me to it, but...

Let's reverse this situation.

There's a counselor who is openly, flagrantly, flamingly homosexual.

A client comes in who is militantly ANTI-homosexual.

What's going to happen then?

Simple, common sense -- the client would be re-assigned to someone to whom he could better relate.

Why is this only an unacceptable option when the counselor in question is Christian?

All that said, this is nothing more than a progression of the homosezuals agenda. Previous attacks included the churches who wouldn't marry them, or fertility docs who declined to participate and referred them to other Docs...

She cannot be allowed to maintain her views - period.

"Diversity of opinion" means "you must think the same as all the rest of us deviants."

Newspeak at its finest.



_________________
workinwifdakids wrote:
MV Gun Counter: "We're like Blackwater, except without the impulse control."
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:38 am 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:05 pm
Posts: 689
There is also a question of the employee relationship. Churches, Christian hospitals, etc. employ counselors too, and by their nature the councel relative to the beliefs of that group. If schools say one cannnot hold those beliefs and be a counselor, then they are also saying that those groups cannot employe degreed counselors who hold their beliefs.

It is not the schools decision to make. It is the student's future employer's decision (or arguably her decision on whether she wants to hold to her beliefs or counsel per her employers wishes).

That said, I would not have any problem with it if it was a private school (since I think then it would be their decision what beliefs they consider in line with their mission).


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:59 am 
Active Shooter

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:15 am
Posts: 3069
If its a private school, and they laid out that every student must espouse those beliefs, then fine. Otherwise... (I know there are Christian Therapists - I imagine there are Christian Counseling programs as well...)

Kommander, addiction isn't handled by saying "Do less of thus-and-such"... You have to face the fundamental flaw that's driving you to self-destruct/hide from reality through those means.



_________________
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:26 am 
Active Shooter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:05 am
Posts: 4126
Location: Under your bed with a knife
308Mike wrote:
Unf'ing real. The NUTS *ARE* running the asylum!!


This is news?


HTRN



_________________
EGO partum , proinde EGO sum
First Shirt wrote:
Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident."
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:43 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:47 pm
Posts: 8952
Location: San Diego area, People's Republic of Kommiefornia
HTRN wrote:
308Mike wrote:
Unf'ing real. The NUTS *ARE* running the asylum!!


This is news?


HTRN


Nope - just ANOTHER instance of verification.



_________________
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:41 am 
Case Shiner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:11 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Fairview Park, OH
Kommander wrote:
Edit: I did some digging and the University demands are starting to look like horsehit. I would still like some more information though. If a gay person comes to her for guidance and her response is "have you tried not being gay" there may be a problem. If she helps the person to the best of her ability within the other persons belief system then I don't see any problem.


"Do your parents know you're Ramones?"



_________________
I have mysteeerious powers. Look, surrender now, and I'll leave you the use of your legs. -- Bandit Six
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:22 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:21 pm
Posts: 556
This does not bode well for her:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/28/co ... sexuality/

Rope, judge, tree, you know the drill.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:58 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:41 am
Posts: 918
Location: San Diego, CA
This seems contradictory:
Quote:
...released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs.

Wasn't it her "personal beliefs" that got her booted?

I hope she appeals up the line until "Precedent" is set by an authoritative court.



_________________
“I want you to remember that no S.O.B. ever won a war by dying for his country. He won by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.” - Gen George S. Patton
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:25 pm 
Good Christ I Need A Life
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 8371
Quote:
A federal judge has ruled in favor of a public university that removed a Christian student from its graduate program in school counseling over her belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views.

“It’s a very dangerous precedent,” Jeremy Tedesco, legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told FOX News Radio. “The ruling doesn’t say that explicitly, but that’s what is going to happen.”

U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients.

The university contended she violated school policy and the American Counseling Association code of ethics.

“Christian students shouldn’t be expelled for holding to and abiding by their beliefs,” said ADF senior counsel David French. “To reach its decision, the court had to do something that’s never been done in federal court: uphold an extremely broad and vague university speech code.”

Eastern Michigan University hailed the decision.

“We are pleased that the court has upheld our position in this matter,” EMU spokesman Walter Kraft said in a written statement. “Julea Ward was not discriminated against because of her religion. To the contrary, Eastern Michigan is deeply committed to the education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds into our community.”

In his 48-page opinion, Judge Steeh said the university had a rational basis for adopting the ACA Code of Ethics.

“Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.”

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

The case is similar to a lawsuit the ADF filed against Augusta State University in Georgia. Counseling student Jennifer Keeton was allegedly told to stop sharing her Christian beliefs in order to graduate.

Keeton's lawsuit alleged that she was told to undergo a reeducation program and attend “diversity sensitivity training.”

University officials declined to comment on specifics of the lawsuit but released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs.

Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities.

“Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.”

The Alliance Defense Fund told FOX News it will appeal the ruling.



_________________
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:29 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:53 pm
Posts: 506
Location: State College, PA (Penn State's armpit)
If they insist on this diversity obsession we need to start sending some redneck awareness diversity counselors to California.



_________________
In the future, everyone will be Hitler for fifteen minutes.
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:08 pm 
Trigger Junkie

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm
Posts: 1169
Location: Florida
Quote:
“We are pleased that the court has upheld our position in this matter,” EMU spokesman Walter Kraft said in a written statement. “Julea Ward was not discriminated against because of her religion. To the contrary, Eastern Michigan is deeply committed to the education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds into our community.”


I think they meant:

...deeply committed to the RE-education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds, as long as you are not Christian, Catholic or one of those pesky JEWS, into our community.


Diversity INCLUDES the majority too, you fools.



_________________
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:43 am 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:39 am
Posts: 779
Location: Arizona
I hate to say this, but the school may be right on this one.

There is a pretty bright line between "I believe homosexuals are sinners" and "I refuse to counsel homosexuals because they are sinners"

I mean, would you countenance:

"I refuse to counsel rapists and murderers because of their sinful lifestyle"

She's not in private practice where she can refuse any client she likes. If she has a sincere religious believe that homosexuality is a sin, the proper response is "of course I will counsel homosexuals, sinners like that need all the help they can get."



_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MarkHorning
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:15 am 
Active Shooter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 3201
Location: Anchorage, AK
NVGdude wrote:
I hate to say this, but the school may be right on this one.

There is a pretty bright line between "I believe homosexuals are sinners" and "I refuse to counsel homosexuals because they are sinners"


The school is there to provide training and education, not dictate what sort of job(s) its students must perform after graduation. If the student is refusing to complete an assignment for personal reasons, a more appropriate response would be to issue her an incomplete or failing grade for that assignment or class. This is about passing judgment upon her beliefs, and making an example of her, pure and simple. That, and making sure only their kind of people work in the field of counseling.



_________________
sam wrote:
But most of the political class/powers that be/big wigs/whatever will not recognize that sometimes the best option is to do nothing. I always include that as an option in every proposal I write. I am usually asked to remove it.
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:39 am 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:39 am
Posts: 779
Location: Arizona
I don't disagree. However, she's in Grad School, which often blurs the lines between education and vocation.

I'd bet good money part of the degree program is successfully complete XX hours of student counseling in the university counseling center of some such nonsense, which she seems incapable of completing.

As a Physicist, I don't think I'd be able to say "I refuse to tutor homosexuals in the math and physics learning center because they are sinners."

How is this different?

(I'm mostly arguing to make a point here, because I think the University is being douche-nozzles about the whole thing)



_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MarkHorning
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:05 am 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:57 pm
Posts: 678
Location: Portland and/or Corvallis, OR
NVGdude wrote:
I don't disagree. However, she's in Grad School, which often blurs the lines between education and vocation.

I'd bet good money part of the degree program is successfully complete XX hours of student counseling in the university counseling center of some such nonsense, which she seems incapable of completing.

As a Physicist, I don't think I'd be able to say "I refuse to tutor homosexuals in the math and physics learning center because they are sinners."

How is this different?

(I'm mostly arguing to make a point here, because I think the University is being douche-nozzles about the whole thing)


Did she refuse to counsel anyone, though? From how I'm reading it, she merely expressed her opinion in class discussions, which obviously offended some people. Nowhere does it say she refused to perform her job if she didn't agree with the person who came to her for help.



_________________
Chicks dig fixed bayonets
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:50 pm 
Case Shiner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:08 am
Posts: 461
Quote:
University officials declined to comment on specifics of the lawsuit but released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs.


Which is to say that it does actually.

Quote:
As a Physicist, I don't think I'd be able to say "I refuse to tutor homosexuals in the math and physics learning center because they are sinners."

How is this different?


Doesn't the Obamacare bill have stipulations in it that dictate that doctors with applicable skills MUST provide abortions regardless of their beliefs? Is that not wrong? What if someone is working on their doctorate and the school expels them because they have a moral objection to abortion and state that they would not perform one? How is this different for that matter? Then again, unless somebody kills the bill, there will no longer be any such thing as a private practice... :(



_________________
The New and Improved Place Where I Rant: Michael's Soapbox

My full-custom holster page: The Holster Site
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:58 pm 
Loose Cannon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:39 am
Posts: 779
Location: Arizona
Aegis wrote:

Did she refuse to counsel anyone, though? From how I'm reading it, she merely expressed her opinion in class discussions, which obviously offended some people. Nowhere does it say she refused to perform her job if she didn't agree with the person who came to her for help.


That is what the university is claiming in their brief. (as I read the linked article). We all know that the media tends to get things spectacularly wrong from time to time. (i.e. almost always)



_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MarkHorning
Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: University Counseling Student Must Change Religious Beli
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:15 pm 
Trigger Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:36 pm
Posts: 1560
Location: Scandinavia
Aegis wrote:
Did she refuse to counsel anyone, though? From how I'm reading it, she merely expressed her opinion in class discussions, which obviously offended some people. Nowhere does it say she refused to perform her job if she didn't agree with the person who came to her for help.

There's two different articles in this topic.
First Jennifer Keeton:
Quote:
Keeton, 24, is pursuing her master’s degree in counseling at Augusta State. After her professors learned of her biblical beliefs, specifically her views on homosexual conduct, from both classroom discussions and private conversations with other students, the school imposed the re-education plan. Keeton never denigrated anyone in communicating her beliefs but merely stated factually what they were in appropriate contexts.

Second is Julea Ward:
Quote:
U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients.



_________________
“The truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it, ignorance may deride it, malice may distort it, but there it is.” -Winston Churchill
"Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."
Online
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 33 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: morsetaper and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: