How do we steer the culture back to Liberty?

[Dub_James]

represses only those freedoms which I do not care about (or perhaps, even despise), and leaves alone those freedoms which I value as essential.

That's the Gun Control formulation of it. No thanks.

[PawPaw]

Could we all define, "liberty", so we cant pretend we're all talking about the same thing?

I've always gone back to the words of Jefferson, et al.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

[Darrell]

I always thought of it as responsible freedom, as opposed to license/licentiousness. But but! Licentiousness is so much more fun these days.

[Aesop]

Liberty, simply defined:

"Leave me the fuck alone, keep your cotton-picking hands out of my wallet, and go mind your own goddamned business."

The Native Busybody class can't handle this, and breed until they choke off the host species.

They won't suddenly grow up and get fucking jobs, which will occasion their eventual ruthless pruning back, likely in an 1861-esque orgy of blood-letting, because some people can't learn a lesson until their liver is on the end of your bayonet.

There may be any number of half-hearted "reforms", like waves moving in and out with the tide, but eventually, one side or the other will attempt to prevail.

The closest equivalent in nature would be trying to saddle-break a grizzly bear.

The main problem with our republic is that starting with the 1st Congress, we no longer had the original Broadway cast.
If it were simply not only legal, but commendable, to shoot the m******f*****s in the face whose every thought and deed was inimical to original intent, the decline would be far more prolonged and of much tinier increments, but the eventual discussion would still devolve to where it's headed now, just over centuries instead of decades.

This is why perfecting time travel would be beneficial, so that we could simply go out and pinch off the bad seeds when they were mere seedlings, instead of the current problem of needing to slash and burn an entire forest of bad ideas and metastasized government brambles and weeds. Imagine quietly holding, for example, little Woodrow Wilson underwater in the local creek at the tender age of 4, rather than now fighting the combined power of all the idiocy he unleashed on the nation, and you have the concept down pat. (What "It's A Wonderful Life" failed to explore was how truly bitchin' Bedford Falls would have been if old man Potter had been the one to have never been born... Capra wussed out on that question, and if you're looking for a great movie to remake properly instead of butt-raping the classic original, the idea is offered gratis).

The only upside to the current status quo is that eventually shooting the statist bastards in the face will be unalloyed good fun, provided it happens while we're all still young enough to take part. I can only imagine Ben Franklin's frustration at not being able to personally unload a faceful of grapeshot into the ranks of redcoats to understand the problem of being born out of time.

[Old Grafton]

We're at this stage:

" that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. "

......for a little while, yet.

[Kommander]

The only issue with using a time machine to get rid of statists, other than the usual time paradoxes, is that others will simply rise in their place. You need a way to make them not appear in the first place and a way to make it so that if they do appear the vast majority of the citizenry ignores them.

[George guy]

The main problem with our republic is that starting with the 1st Congress, we no longer had the original Broadway cast.
If it were simply not only legal, but commendable, to shoot the m******f*****s in the face whose every thought and deed was inimical to original intent, the decline would be far more prolonged and of much tinier increments, but the eventual discussion would still devolve to where it's headed now, just over centuries instead of decades.

It's this kind of thing for which I think it would be useful to have something along the lines of Frank Herbert's Bureau of Sabotage. Make a few movies/TV series running with the idea, and it could get into a lot of people's heads.

[MarkD]

As long as we're thinking out loud, I propose the following Constitutional Amendment (with explanatory remarks):

Whereas: The Bill of Rights enumerates inalienable, pre-existing rights of the citizenry of the United States, endowed upon such by their Creator, and

Whereas: The language of the Bill of Rights is plain enough to be understood by elected officials charged with upholding the rights of the citizenry, and

Whereas: violation of the rights of the citizenry is a threat to the well being of the nation

Be it proposed: When a law passed by Congress and signed by the President shall be deemed Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and that court has determined that the law is Unconstitutional because it violates the Rights of the citizenry enumerated in the Bill of Rights, all Representatives, Senators, and the President responsible for enacting that law shall, if still holding any elected office, be removed from office immediately, all salaries, benefits, and pensions shall for forfeit effective the date of voting or signing of the law in question, funds to be repaid to the Treasury, and all persons who were active in enacting and enforcing said law, whether elected, appointed or hired,shall be subject to prosecution for, at minimum, violation of civil rights under color of law and, at most, Treason. Those found guilty of Capital Crimes shall be executed by firing squad.

Costs of prosecution shall be defrayed via two methods:

1) All assets of the guilty earned from the date of action of the crime in question shall be seized, and
2) Citizens willing to act as members of the firing squads used to execute those found guilty of Capital Crimes may apply for such a position, with a once-per-lifetime application fee of $100. Firing squad positions shall be chosen by lottery.

Funds collected in excess of the requirements needed to defray the cost of prosecution shall go into the general treasuring, and taxes collected from the citizens shall be reduced by the same amount.

[Dub_James]

Nope. Pre-empt the law to begin with. If the law's clearly unconstitutional, then it is so even before it's passed. Kill it then, and punish at that point. The problem with bad law is that it has to go into effect before it can be dealt with. Change that flaw, and stop trying to use the system to patch it.

[MarkD]

Nope. Pre-empt the law to begin with. If the law's clearly unconstitutional, then it is so even before it's passed. Kill it then, and punish at that point. The problem with bad law is that it has to go into effect before it can be dealt with. Change that flaw, and stop trying to use the system to patch it.

So do we put each new law before the Supreme Court before it's put into effect? Makes staying home on Election day loom even larger.....