I hate the BMI

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Jered
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I hate the BMI

Postby Jered » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:47 pm

Ok, I officially hate the BMI. I'm 6'4" tall. I weight 265 lbs. I'm fairly broad shouldered, too.

My BMI is 32.3 that says I'm obese.

According to the Google BMI calculator, my healthy weight is 204 pounds.

What in the actual fuck? Seriously. I'd have to look like a concentration camp survivor to weigh that much. Yeah. looking like a walking skeleton is healthy. :roll:
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby blackeagle603 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:44 pm

What's your waist:hip ratio?

Got access to a newfangled scale with BF impedance measurement? Even if it's off by a few percent like mine is, it would be an interesting order of magnitude sort of comparison with the BMI. I laugh at my scale because it also calculates BMI.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Rich » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:29 pm

AFA football linemen have to get a waiver for BMI so they can stay healthy and play football. After graduation I imagine (I don't actually know) they are given a period of time to go on a diet to get down to BMI standards. Of course they are closely monitored and helped by flight surgeons and other doctors.

I imagine the other branches are similar.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:56 pm

I swear the BMI is designed for ectomorphs and/or marathoners. I'm 6' and a fraction, about 205#. I walk to work most days (and when I'm teaching I'm on my feet a lot, plus I like to walk to run errands when I can), play basketball two mornings a week at OMG30 with other over-educated old farts and the occasional young one, and BMI says I'm overweight. Okay, my knees would probably like me to lose 10 or so, but I have my doubts about BMI. :roll:

I'm also pretty sure the new AHA blood-pressure guidelines have more to do with getting more people on BP meds than they they do with actual public health. :x
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby MarkD » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:17 am

BMI isn't worth a fart in a hurricane. Most nfl players would be considered obese or morbidly so,.not just the linemen, the defensive backs. Bodybuilders, the ones with single-digit body far percentages, would also show as obese.

Why?

Because it's the ratio of height to weight, and a pound of muscle weighs the same as a pound of fat, but one is healthy and one isn't necessarily healthy. Body fat percentage is a MUCH better metric of health.

Just a little resource on the topic:
https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/body-fat-percentage/

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby g-man » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:35 am

Rich wrote:AFA football linemen have to get a waiver for BMI so they can stay healthy and play football. After graduation I imagine (I don't actually know) they are given a period of time to go on a diet to get down to BMI standards. Of course they are closely monitored and helped by flight surgeons and other doctors.

I imagine the other branches are similar.


Spoken for truth. One of my AFIT classmates had been an AFA lineman, and we noted that he'd look frighteningly unhealthy if he were to manage to get his waist down to the 'max' score of 32" for the PT test.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby randy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:03 am

I'm 6"1' and was continually being harassed while I was in (before BMI became a thing) as I kept between 200 and 210 pounds, but my ideal body weight according to the charts was 180 (which I hadn't seen since Jr High), and since I was more than 10% over mt "ideal" weight I had to weigh in twice as often as everyone else. This at a time when I was running regularly (including a 10K) and had 0 problems keeping up in the field during SERE and never had an issue with a flight physical. I had to be careful when lifting weights to ensure I didn't exceed my Max Allowable Weight.

One of the reasons my weight ballooned after I got out was I was sick of monitoring my weight, especially against such BS standards and went too far the other way. (I'm bringing it back down, slowly,, but working on it).

MiddleAgedKen wrote:I'm also pretty sure the new AHA blood-pressure guidelines have more to do with getting more people on BP meds than they do with actual public health. :x


Roger Roger. My BP was controlled to a "healthy" level until this week. Now all of a sudden it's not. Fortunately my Docs seem to have common sense, because I am not going to start popping more pills. Whenever my BP has gotten into the new "normal range" I get light headed, dizzy, and in general not enjoying life.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Windy Wilson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:24 am

BMI has undergone a sort of reverse inflation since the concept first became widely known. underweight has become normal weight, normal, obese, and morbidly obese has expanded ( :mrgreen:)
It is suitable more for a marathoner than a fullback, and it's all part of the procrustean approach to health (and everything else) Government is known for.

My question about Blood Pressure is whether a seventy year old man is supposed to have the same blood pressure as a twenty year old. There's a loss of elasticity in so many body parts as one ages -- wrinkled faces are a result of loss of elasticity, as is presbyopia, the need for reading glasses.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Vonz90 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:58 pm

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =106268439

Itis in fact worthless as an individual measurement and was never intended to be used that way.

I am 6'1" and about 195 lbs, per BMI I am quite fat, per actual body fat measurements I am fit.

Thank God the Navy never bought into the BMI cool aid.

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Weetabix » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:39 pm

Vonz90 wrote:https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

Itis in fact worthless as an individual measurement and was never intended to be used that way.

I am 6'1" and about 195 lbs, per BMI I am quite fat, per actual body fat measurements I am fit.

Thank God the Navy never bought into the BMI cool aid.

Is there a good way to gauge a reasonable weight besides calipers or dunking a person?
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Vonz90 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:24 pm

Weetabix wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

Itis in fact worthless as an individual measurement and was never intended to be used that way.

I am 6'1" and about 195 lbs, per BMI I am quite fat, per actual body fat measurements I am fit.

Thank God the Navy never bought into the BMI cool aid.

Is there a good way to gauge a reasonable weight besides calipers or dunking a person?


http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator. ... y-Fat-Navy

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby BDK » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:21 am

Back in the long, long ago, I think every athlete at A&M was "morbidly obese" to "obese" under that scale.

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby First Shirt » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:36 am

According to the BMI, Michael Jordan was "obese" when he led the Chicago Bulls to the NBA title, his last year. This caused it to lose a lot of credibility in my mind.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Termite » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:50 am

Junior Termite(no longer very junior......) is now 5'9", 175#......and has been doing the "rip-it" workout for months. He looks like a Hollywood "Seal Team 6" member......he benches something north of 280#......

Yet according to the BMI index, he is..."over weight"...... :roll:
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby evan price » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:17 pm

When i went to join the navy in 89 i was 6'1" tall and weighed 210 lbs. Morbidly obese.
Working for five years in a clothing import warehouse distribution environment loading and unloading trucks and packing orders. I bounced around 220 for years. I tried actively watching my diet got me under 200 pounds one summer in 1995. I had sunken cheeks, size 33 waist by 32 leg jeans that fell off me if i forgot my belt. I could throw a 40' trailer full of 25-kilo boxes of clothing all night long in summer heat or winter cold.
But the staff nurse checked us annually as part of the presidents physical fitness plan for the blood drives. Bmi 27 says Obese.
I've never been in as good of shape. Navy had told me i was supposed to be 175...maybe if i amputate a leg.
I've put on a hundred pounds since high school. Wish i lost some.
I don't look my weight. I can bench press a transmission. But my bmi now is 40. Yuck.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby blackeagle603 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:29 pm

Termite wrote:Junior Termite(no longer very junior......) is now 5'9", 175#......and has been doing the "rip-it" workout for months. He looks like a Hollywood "Seal Team 6" member......he benches something north of 280#......

Yet according to the BMI index, he is..."over weight"...... :roll:


And yet the establishment Nutritionist/Dietician/MD community wonders why so many of us don't take them seriously on many things anymore. They turn a blind eye to the demise of expert_God view of them, and the rise the health geek/self maintenance movement fueled by the likes of Dr's Davis, Axe, Mercola and fitness bloggers/self promoters like Asprey/Ferris/Sisson.

The establishment still thinks it should require a scrip from a "professional" to be able to request testing of various body fluids yourself. Seriously, I should have to go to a Doc if i'm just curious about the effect of the recent dietary/activity changes on my cholesterol, thyroid or testosterone (and don't want to wait/pay for the next Doc visit covered by insurance? The scripture is only for the clergy -- and even then only of for the Vatican. All you out in there in the huddled masses need to stand back and trust us that we have read and teach the truth from the Latin copies we hold so closely and above you little people.

A Reformation is underway. The net changes everything.

Undoctored
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Vonz90 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:14 pm

evan price wrote:When i went to join the navy in 89 i was 6'1" tall and weighed 210 lbs. Morbidly obese.
Working for five years in a clothing import warehouse distribution environment loading and unloading trucks and packing orders. I bounced around 220 for years. I tried actively watching my diet got me under 200 pounds one summer in 1995. I had sunken cheeks, size 33 waist by 32 leg jeans that fell off me if i forgot my belt. I could throw a 40' trailer full of 25-kilo boxes of clothing all night long in summer heat or winter cold.
But the staff nurse checked us annually as part of the presidents physical fitness plan for the blood drives. Bmi 27 says Obese.
I've never been in as good of shape. Navy had told me i was supposed to be 175...maybe if i amputate a leg.
I've put on a hundred pounds since high school. Wish i lost some.
I don't look my weight. I can bench press a transmission. But my bmi now is 40. Yuck.


This is odd. I commissioned in 1990 and went through a several training commands and my ships in the 90's (including PTR coordinator on one ship) and while the details changed, it was overall the same. First cut was the height/weight chart and if you were over for that it went to the tape measure method.

I have kicked a few people out for being over weight too, both in active and the later in the reserves and it was always height, weight and tape. Usually had the medical department tape them if they showed over fat when we did them ourselves.

The height and weight charts were not the BMI charts either. I am 6'1" and my max weight on the chart was I want to say 204. Per BMI it is 170 or something like that.

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby MarkD » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:24 pm

blackeagle603 wrote:
Termite wrote:Junior Termite(no longer very junior......) is now 5'9", 175#......and has been doing the "rip-it" workout for months. He looks like a Hollywood "Seal Team 6" member......he benches something north of 280#......

Yet according to the BMI index, he is..."over weight"...... :roll:


And yet the establishment Nutritionist/Dietician/MD community wonders why so many of us don't take them seriously on many things anymore. They turn a blind eye to the demise of expert_God view of them, and the rise the health geek/self maintenance movement fueled by the likes of Dr's Davis, Axe, Mercola and fitness bloggers/self promoters like Asprey/Ferris/Sisson.

The establishment still thinks it should require a scrip from a "professional" to be able to request testing of various body fluids yourself. Seriously, I should have to go to a Doc if i'm just curious about the effect of the recent dietary/activity changes on my cholesterol, thyroid or testosterone (and don't want to wait/pay for the next Doc visit covered by insurance? The scripture is only for the clergy -- and even then only of for the Vatican. All you out in there in the huddled masses need to stand back and trust us that we have read and teach the truth from the Latin copies we hold so closely and above you little people.

A Reformation is underway. The net changes everything.

Undoctored


I've told this story before but it bears repeating.

A couple years ago my cholesterol was 250, my doctor told me to lose weight or he'd put me on statins. If I'm going to destroy my liver I'll do so with single malt scotch, not statins, so over the next four months I dropped 30 pounds, my cholesterol went UP to 270. The script for statins went unfilled, research showed it's.common for cholesterol to go up during weight loss. Four months later, when my weight loss had slowed, my cholesterol was 205, doctor proclaimed the statins a success and was amazed when I told him I wasn't taking them.

Something similar happened to my sister in law, who is not at ALL overweight. When you think about it it makes sense, cholesterol is stores in fat, reduce fat and cholesterol is released into the bloodstream (where it can be measured) and then to the liver for elimination.

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby blackeagle603 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:23 pm

Crashed carbs pretty hard since stroke Feb 2015. Down 50 lbs or so. Lean mass up a fair bit. Last bloodwork had textbook ideal Triglyceride/LDL/HDL numbers.

A month ago (18 month post stroke check) with my Neuro Doc I asked about running a 3-4 month test with reduced statin. Told him about some swelling and achi-ness. So he cut me back to 20mg/day from 40mg/day of Avorastatin. I'd really like to just be off it but would prefer to do it with collaboration/agreement from him. There's some indication that post vascular event, there's some statistical benefit to taking a statin. Nevermind it interrupts all manner of necessary enzymatic pathways...

Currently have an empty prescription and haven't been taking any statin for 2 couple weeks now (auto refill didn't happen from the pharmacy, haven't called in a refill yet).
No more swelly ankles at end of day, no more persistent days of achy shoulder/traps/pecs as a result of my 2x/week pullup_pushup_plank_paddleboard work. Pondering whether to call that refill in or to just roll with it another couple months and see what blood looks like at retest end of January.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Precision » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:36 am

just looked up my BMI

I am shorter than most on here at 5'9" on a tall day.
I weight a lot less than many as well, right at 160#. My goal weight is 175 with slightly more lean than I am now. But most people ask me how much I work out / how I stay in great shape. Simple, good genetics, don't eat shit food and am high energy output.

At my current I am at the green / yellow border.
Where my goal is, Solidly yellow and looking towards red.
That my friends is dumb. If I can go from 10-12% body fat down to 6-8% bodyfat and gain 15#, I am going to look like a slightly thin Greek God, not a BMI failure.

I was once water tanked at the peak of my fit craze at 2.5% bodyfat. I was Ripped and Looked all swole up until I turned in profile, then I still looked kinda skinny. But I had a 28" waist, 24" thighs, a 42" chest and 16" biceps. Clothes were a bitch to find.

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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Rich » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:04 am

I'm 5'8" on a good day and am quite a bit over 200lbs. In other words, I'm fat regardless of the system used. I'm slowly losing weight by the simple expedient of eating about half of what I used to eat. My goal is about 175-185 in about 3 years, maybe 4. And if I don't make it by then, well I'll just tack on another year or two.

At age 77, I'm in no hurry. ;)
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby blackeagle603 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:15 pm

Cut your carbs to 50-100 grams a day and watch the magic happen.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Rich » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:43 pm

My carbs are already down. I don't eat most fried food (chicken is too tasty to give up), potato chips, onion rings and most desserts.

True story; While stationed at Hahn, Germany, my squadron commander (bless his heart) sent me down to the hospital in Weisbaden to participate in a weight loss program the Army was running at the time. The basis of the program was a diet of 1000 calories a day, all the RC diet cola or water you want to drink and programmed exercise. In reality a month long vacation from daily pressures. The motto of the staff was that the building would lose weight with this program. The only control was the diet and weight checks.

The average loss in the group was about 25 pounds. I lost 12 pounds in that month, barely making it under the weight limit of 187 pounds. It taught me that I would have to be on a diet for the rest of my life in order to keep the Air Force happy. I managed to stay close to my limit until I retired, then I pigged out with steaks and such. That diet made me the man I am today, so now I'm paying the price.

Smaller portions, less fried foods, fewer desserts, leaving some food on the plate when done. It's what I can do without straining or breaking something.

I don't like going to the hospital, that is where sick people are. :?
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Langenator » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:14 pm

Well, I'm 6'2.5", and I weigh about 205, which apparently gives me a BMI of 26.0, which also apparently means I'm overweight.

Now, according to the Army's height/weight charts, I have either 9 or 15 pounds before I'm above max weight for my height, depending on whether you round up to 75" or down to 74".

According to the Navy body fat calculator, I'm at 17% body fat, which qualifies me as "Fit".

I run obstacle course races for fun, and can do 5 miles at a 9 minute/mile pace. Pretty sure I'm not 'overweight.'
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby First Shirt » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:22 pm

Langenator wrote:I run obstacle course races for fun, and can do 5 miles at a 9 minute/mile pace. Pretty sure I'm not 'overweight.'


Cool! Another drinker with a running problem!

Which ones do you do?
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Langenator » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:51 am

First Shirt wrote:
Langenator wrote:I run obstacle course races for fun, and can do 5 miles at a 9 minute/mile pace. Pretty sure I'm not 'overweight.'


Cool! Another drinker with a running problem!

Which ones do you do?


So far, I've done the Spartan Sprint in DC and the VA Super Spartan, plus a bunch of Rugged Maniac runs. My newest infatuation is "Run 'n Gun", which combines running/walking with shooting (2 guns - rifle/pistol) and the occasional obstacle. I did my first of those - the amusingly named Waco Tactical Fitness 5k (they also do a 10k) last month.

All of the Spartan and Tough Mudder races in TX for 2017 ran into work conflicts for me (I'm a cop, and have to work every other weekend, and then every weekend we have a home football game on top of that), but 2018 looks to have fewer scheduling conflicts. Might try to achieve the Spartan TriFecta.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby First Shirt » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:39 pm

I've done Warrior Dashes (5K with 10-12 obstacles) and Savage Races (10K with 25 obstacles) because they are the only ones in reasonable driving distance. Supposed to be a Tough Mudder in Tennessee this year, and if work doesn't get in the way, I'd like to try that one, too.

You'd think that at my age, I'd have better sense than this, wouldn't you?
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby Langenator » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:37 pm

It takes me 2-3 hours to get to any of the races in TX (mostly in Houston, Austin, DFW areas), but in TX 2-3 hours isn't much.

What amazes me is the folks who fly around the country for these things.

But hey, we spend $800-1000 on a gun, they spend it on flying to races.
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Re: I hate the BMI

Postby First Shirt » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:16 pm

It usually takes me 2-5 hours to drive to a race, the exception being the Warrior Dash in Nebraska, but I only drive to that one because a dozen or so friends are running it, too, and it's as much for the reunion as the race.
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
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